Oil Levels

[xtrailman]

Having read hundreds of posts on the whirlpool ausiie cx-5 forum, they reported getting rising oil on the early cars regaurdless of how the car was run.

In particular one chap with the problem spent most of his time on motorways.
I understand Mazda do a regen depending on miles regardless of the soot content, that timed regen period has been lengthened by a software update, they was also a batch of faulty sensors that had to be replaced.

There's no need to do any thrash down the motorway or anywhere else, just avoid excessive stop start city driving, petrol or diesel cars don't like that treatment. If you do get a DPF dash light on drive it over 1500rpm for 15 to 20mins until the light goes off.

I only do 7K miles a year, mainly short journeys, and I'm on my second DPF car, first one was an 2009 Xtrail, and I have NEVER had a DPF light up on the dash. So that's around 6 years driving with DPF.

I do get around 8mm oil rise with my Mazda, over a  year but I don't see it as a problem with 7K oil changes.
I've recently had a remap and oil change end of July and the oil level is just over the full mark, so perhaps the last remap has improved things.

[Anchorman]

Just read this thread with interest.

For info, the fuel isn't recovered from the DPF into the sump. To get the DPF super heated and burn off the soot, fuel is injected into the cylinders on the exhaust stroke and it heats up the exhaust a bit like an afterburner on a jet. If the cycle is interrupted by stopping the engine, a pool of oil sits on top of the piston rings and can trickle through to the sump over time. It's only a teaspoon full but it adds up over miles.

[Deeps]

It's also worth noting/remembering that the inherent problem with DPF's in vehicles, and hence the reason why other manufacturers have chosen the AdBlue route despite the inconvenience of needing an additional tank, is that in the process of burning off the soot particles what's left behind is ash which is not and can not be burned off. It is this build up of ash that eventually blocks up the filter rendering it unserviceable.

This has created a new industry that specialise in dismantling DPF's and cleaning them up. The cost for this varies according to vehicle make (DPF used) but can save up to 50% of the cost of a new filter. Whichever way one looks at it, far better to keep regens down to an absolute minimum.

[ROCKETRON]

It's also worth noting/remembering that the inherent problem with DPF's in vehicles, and hence the reason why other manufacturers have chosen the AdBlue route despite the inconvenience of needing an additional tank, is that in the process of burning off the soot particles what's left behind is ash which is not and can not be burned off. It is this build up of ash that eventually blocks up the filter rendering it unserviceable.

This has created a new industry that specialise in dismantling DPF's and cleaning them up. The cost for this varies according to vehicle make (DPF used) but can save up to 50% of the cost of a new filter. Whichever way one looks at it, far better to keep regens down to an absolute minimum.

I Dont think that ad-blue is used to burn off particulate matter, it is used to get the nitrous oxides down to the eu6 spec. Apparently skyactiv engines dont need it as the lower diesel compression's stop the high levels of NO.
All manufactures inject diesel to create an after burn to burn off particulate matter but some manufacturers inject it straight into the exhaust so none can get into the sump, but most inject it into the cylinders as Mazda does but i think due to improved software some dont regenerate as much, but most get some slight raising of the oil level. I think the reason Mazda have a problem is that the skyactiv engines probably have low friction piston rings for efficiency and they let more unburnt diesel past them during failed regens. My car does a regen every 2-300 miles even though most of my driving is long distance at motorway speeds and so i think that the Mazda doesn't do passive regens only active and as it is so regular i dont think that there is much measuring of the dpf to see if it needs a regen, the software just does one at regular intervals whether its needed or not, meaning that a lot more extra diesel is squirted in than is really needed.

[xtrailman]

Yes adblue is nothing to do with DPF cleaning.

[Anchorman]

It's also worth noting/remembering that the inherent problem with DPF's in vehicles, and hence the reason why other manufacturers have chosen the AdBlue route despite the inconvenience of needing an additional tank, is that in the process of burning off the soot particles what's left behind is ash which is not and can not be burned off. It is this build up of ash that eventually blocks up the filter rendering it unserviceable.

This has created a new industry that specialise in dismantling DPF's and cleaning them up. The cost for this varies according to vehicle make (DPF used) but can save up to 50% of the cost of a new filter. Whichever way one looks at it, far better to keep regens down to an absolute minimum.

I Dont think that ad-blue is used to burn off particulate matter, it is used to get the nitrous oxides down to the eu6 spec. Apparently skyactiv engines dont need it as the lower diesel compression's stop the high levels of NO.
All manufactures inject diesel to create an after burn to burn off particulate matter but some manufacturers inject it straight into the exhaust so none can get into the sump, but most inject it into the cylinders as Mazda does but i think due to improved software some dont regenerate as much, but most get some slight raising of the oil level. I think the reason Mazda have a problem is that the skyactiv engines probably have low friction piston rings for efficiency and they let more unburnt diesel past them during failed regens. My car does a regen every 2-300 miles even though most of my driving is long distance at motorway speeds and so i think that the Mazda doesn't do passive regens only active and as it is so regular i dont think that there is much measuring of the dpf to see if it needs a regen, the software just does one at regular intervals whether its needed or not, meaning that a lot more extra diesel is squirted in than is really needed.

Your car is the exact spec I would choose!

Yes, absolutely right, some vehicles use before and after pressure sensors to monitor blockage and spray fuel through a dedicated fifth injector to perform a regen. The Mazdas are not unique in diluting the oil, my mate sold his Mitzi diesel through ongoing problems. I suspect that the Mazda process based on mileage is a belt and braces job to help meet Euro V and VI.

I never use supermarket diesel which won't alter the regen periods but does avoid scrapping a DPF prematurely.

[Alex]

Having read hundreds of posts on the whirlpool ausiie cx-5 forum, they reported getting rising oil on the early cars regaurdless of how the car was run.

In particular one chap with the problem spent most of his time on motorways.
I understand Mazda do a regen depending on miles regardless of the soot content, that timed regen period has been lengthened by a software update, they was also a batch of faulty sensors that had to be replaced.

There's no need to do any thrash down the motorway or anywhere else, just avoid excessive stop start city driving, petrol or diesel cars don't like that treatment. If you do get a DPF dash light on drive it over 1500rpm for 15 to 20mins until the light goes off.

I only do 7K miles a year, mainly short journeys, and I'm on my second DPF car, first one was an 2009 Xtrail, and I have NEVER had a DPF light up on the dash. So that's around 6 years driving with DPF.

I do get around 8mm oil rise with my Mazda, over a  year but I don't see it as a problem with 7K oil changes.
I've recently had a remap and oil change end of July and the oil level is just over the full mark, so perhaps the last remap has improved things.

Sums it all up perfectly. I've been running Diesel since 1989 and my last three (VW, Peugeot and Saab) have employed the DPF system. I cover about 10k per year and most journeys are short ones. Car has had the checks and modifications as per Mazda and hasn't missed a beat. No warnings to anticipate a DPF flush out of the system or anything. I do give it the odd blast to blow out the cobwebs though.

Let's face it the Germans and French are quite cute with diesel and Japan are still catching up but in my case works a treat.

Alex.

[xtrailman]

Anchorman


says "
I never use supermarket diesel which won't alter the regen periods but does avoid scrapping a DPF prematurely."

Who has ever changed a DPF prematurely due using useing super market fuel?
Its exactly the same fuel, only the additive pack varies and nobody actually knows the difference between the packs.

[Anchorman]

Anchorman


says "
I never use supermarket diesel which won't alter the regen periods but does avoid scrapping a DPF prematurely."

Who has ever changed a DPF prematurely due using useing super market fuel?
Its exactly the same fuel, only the additive pack varies and nobody actually knows the difference between the packs.

I take it you are implying that nobody ever changed a DPF as a result of using supermarket fuel? I can assure you that they did - lots and lots of people.  All the tankers fill up in the same fuel terminal and the additives go in at the time of filling.  Supermarkets don’t sell fuel cheaper than branded fuel stations because of loyalty or volume.  It is because the additives are cheaper and as for the additives themselves, my mate is a fireman and he knows exactly what additives go into diesel.

Whether a car gets problems depends on what type of duty it does, what kind of engine oil is used and what type of system the vehicle uses to manage regeneration.

As for the diesel, supermarket fuel is weasel p*ss as far as I am concerned.  Any of the branded fuel is somewhat better but the high grade fuels have double detergent as well as other enhancers.  I use normal branded fuel and add Millers to it.

[xtrailman]

Anchorman


says "
I never use supermarket diesel which won't alter the regen periods but does avoid scrapping a DPF prematurely."

Who has ever changed a DPF prematurely due using useing super market fuel?
Its exactly the same fuel, only the additive pack varies and nobody actually knows the difference between the packs.

I take it you are implying that nobody ever changed a DPF as a result of using supermarket fuel? I can assure you that they did - lots and lots of people.  All the tankers fill up in the same fuel terminal and the additives go in at the time of filling.  Supermarkets don’t sell fuel cheaper than branded fuel stations because of loyalty or volume.  It is because the additives are cheaper and as for the additives themselves, my mate is a fireman and he knows exactly what additives go into diesel.

Whether a car gets problems depends on what type of duty it does, what kind of engine oil is used and what type of system the vehicle uses to manage regeneration.

As for the diesel, supermarket fuel is weasel p*ss as far as I am concerned.  Any of the branded fuel is somewhat better but the high grade fuels have double detergent as well as other enhancers.  I use normal branded fuel and add Millers to it.

So you have a friend, a fireman that knows what the additive pack contains, when even those working in the industry don't often know what their own company  uses let alone competitors.

The mind boggles, but i'm open minded and would be happy to read the additive pack contents when you post them.

The dearer fuels actually only benefit engines over high mileage, and offer nothing in fuels returns or performance worth mentioning considering the price difference.

[Anchorman]

Anchorman


says "
I never use supermarket diesel which won't alter the regen periods but does avoid scrapping a DPF prematurely."

Who has ever changed a DPF prematurely due using useing super market fuel?
Its exactly the same fuel, only the additive pack varies and nobody actually knows the difference between the packs.

I take it you are implying that nobody ever changed a DPF as a result of using supermarket fuel? I can assure you that they did - lots and lots of people.  All the tankers fill up in the same fuel terminal and the additives go in at the time of filling.  Supermarkets don’t sell fuel cheaper than branded fuel stations because of loyalty or volume.  It is because the additives are cheaper and as for the additives themselves, my mate is a fireman and he knows exactly what additives go into diesel.

Whether a car gets problems depends on what type of duty it does, what kind of engine oil is used and what type of system the vehicle uses to manage regeneration.

As for the diesel, supermarket fuel is weasel p*ss as far as I am concerned.  Any of the branded fuel is somewhat better but the high grade fuels have double detergent as well as other enhancers.  I use normal branded fuel and add Millers to it.

So you have a friend, a fireman that knows what the additive pack contains, when even those working in the industry don't often know what their own company  uses let alone competitors.

The mind boggles, but i'm open minded and would be happy to read the additive pack contents when you post them.

The dearer fuels actually only benefit engines over high mileage, and offer nothing in fuels returns or performance worth mentioning considering the price difference.

What a strange thing to say.  You think that everyone that works in the Coca-Cola factory knows a list of everything in it do you?  I said the fire service know, not that I would post a list of additives.  If I obtained a list of additives they would mean nothing to you and you seem to know more about fuel additives than the fuel companies themselves who put them in to keep the fuel system clean and not only improve the mileage - according to you, even they don't know what they chuck in, let alone spend millions developing.  I suggest you plod on using supermarket fuel, you don’t want to further boggle your mind. 

[Deeps]

I used to live and work on a small Mediterranean island which purchased it's raw fuel by the ship load, then had it shipped across to Italy for refinement into diesel and petrol before finally being shipped to the island. The fuel on the island at that time was heavily subsidized by the Government and consequently the refining process was of the minimum standard required so that they could actually sell it as diesel. For anyone familiar with the refining process, even if only on a basic level, or has visited a refinary - I have - will know for themselves that basic diesel is almost a waste product. One of the very first pieces of advice that I received upon taking up residence on the island was to add at least 1 bottle full of engine oil on each and every occasion that I filled the car up with diesel - a Mitsubishi Shogun - as the cheap diesel was barely good enough for running a tractor. In fact, just looking at the colour of the exhaust after a few weeks was enough to convince me that I should try to drive the car only when absolutely necessary. I even knew of one local inhabitant who, once a year at Christmas time, used to take the ferry across to Italy for the purpose of visiting his daughter and whilst there filled up his car (Jaguar) to the brim with petrol which wasn't much better. Upon return to the island the quantity in the tank was sufficient for him to run the car around the island at weekends whilst at all other times he used a second cheap runaround.

Now I'm not suggesting for one moment that Supermarket fuel sold in the UK or indeed in France etc is of an equally low standard but never-the-less I am personally convinced - true or not - that the fuel is lower quality than that sold on major forecourts such as Shell who are supplying fuel suitable for the season at the time of sale. For the reasons stated I would never dream of filling up with Supermarket fuel unless in an absolute emergency as the few cents in savings are not commensurate with the possible consequences. Please note that I say 'possible' because, having not been informed of any detailed analysis (say a Which comparison report) of Supermarket versus branded fuel, I simply don't know. The CX-5 cost me a fair sum of money and if I now have to search around in order to save a couple of cents off the fuel then I really should have purchased a bicycle LOL. All that said, I do of course respect that each and everyone of us possibly has a different view on the subject and is perfectly free to make up his or her mind. 

Edit: just a final point. Aral Ultimate gets rave reviews - if that's the correct term - over here in Germany.

[rmvf]

I have to agree on the basis I did a experiment in my 08 diesel 6. Shell v power against asda. Maybe about 4 /5 years ago. Full tank of each 380 miles none stop. The result was v power gave nearly 5 miles to the gallon more. 43 versus 47.8. Not only that I felt that the car/ engine was   a tad more responsive. I now use petrol but still use the top grade of fuel. Recently managing 39 mpg on the same run same route etc. But in a cx 5, now both cars serviced at Mazda dealer. A 2.0 litre petrol suv only 5 mpg behind a smaller diesel car using supermarket fuel. There's a lot more to additives and detergents than I realized after doing some research. I am only posting this because it's my experience and I want to share it. Not boasting try doing a similar experiment to see your own results. So the facts are simple the fuels are different in some way. I'm sure at the pumps there's a tiny little sticker say what percentage additives etc is added to the fuel. I will have a look on Thursday. And just to prove my theory again I will drive the 380 miles on asda fuel home and post results Friday. Just digital readouts not going for the exact scientific amount. I have worked in the oil industry for 26 years. I will ask a few around people who are more in the know than me.updated in fuel consumption thread.

[Anchorman]

Now that there are some responses that don't instantly dismiss my point about fuel quality without at least consideration, I'm quite prepared to discuss the work we did on Toyotas that were eating DPF (worse still, very expensive DNPRs that are a hybrid particulate filter come catalyser). I'll also explain how a fire fighter would know so much about additives but I've got to to work now so bear with me.

This is still very much on topic with this thread.

[Willpower]

This is still very much on topic with this thread.

That is a matter for conjecture.   "Oil Levels" is generally something associated with lubrication of either engine or transmission and is not immediately considered when discussing the vagaries of DPF's 

In view of the multiple issues surrounding the Diesel variants and of course the DPF, I have created a child board here.   http://mazdacx5forums.co.uk/index.php?board=55.0

Perhaps you might consider starting a dedicated topic relating to DPF's  as there have been in the Mazda 3 and Mazda 6 forums.

Please continue any further discussions on these subjects in this new area.