Mazda CX-5 Forums
Technical Section => Wheels & Tyres => Topic started by: BigAl on March 10, 2014, 05:49:18 pm
-
OK, so the standard make for the CX5 is the Toyo Proxes R36 (225/55 R19 99V, in my case). Going to need some new fronts soon, and am seriously struggling to find anyone who stocks these (although I'm sure they can be ordered) or who can offer an alternative make.
Any recommendations?
-
Well, that's worrying. Apparently, there aren't any alternatives to the Toyo standard tyres (unless you drop to a H rated version) and I've just been told they are on back order with Toyo. Not expected in the UK until end of April!!! Cheapest quote so far is just over £300 for the two. Kwik Fit want £460!
-
ouch that's gunna hurt we have done 10k+ now I wonder how far we can get on ours?, I will ask my tyre guru and get back to you.
-
Found a Mazda dealer today in Derby that had one in stock (I need three). Offered it for........ £240 inc VAT fitted! Have posted question on Toyo's Facebook page (generally a good way to get a quick response - it works with Mazda as well) about poor availability, they've promised to come back to me ASAP. Watch this space...
-
Aah, the power of social media...
After doing my best to embarrass both Mazda and Toyo on their respective Facebook pages over the last few days, I had a call from Mazda UK HQ this morning. Long story short - they have sourced a budget Y rated tyre that they have approved for use with the 19 inch wheels and have arranged for three to be supplied and fitted on Monday. Free of charge. Just to keep me on the road until the proper Toyo's eventually arrive at the end of April. I call that a result. :)
-
Yep I'd call that a result........ But you are now on their radar and they won't fall for the same trick twice.
Hopefully nothing far more serious and consequentially far more expensive befalls you.
-
Not so sure about that? This is the third time I've locked horns with Mazda UK regarding issues with the car and they're still talking to me. The hard part is actually getting to talk to someone in the first place. Once you do they aren't too bad. Using social media like FB and Twitter to get a faster response is a tactic that my son (who does web development) taught me - it does appear to work.
-
Nice one, wondering what happens with TPMS when changing tyres? do dealers fit anything new?
-
As I had a new one fitted last year, due to an accident (hence needing three now), I know what happens...
Picked the car up from the repairers, went out, started it, TPMS light promptly came on. Went back in, their engineer said it needed resetting. He did that, but it came on again after about 5 miles. So I reset it myself (procedure is in the manual). Did it again about 20 miles later and again about 50 miles after that. It hasn't lit up since, so I assume it takes a while to settle itself.
I must remember to look up how those systems work...
-
Woohoo. New shoes. Three new Sonar SX-9 225/55 R19 Y's fitted by Mazda Tamworth yesterday. Have only had to reset TPMS four times so far... Definitely noisier than the Toyos's, but at least I can go out in the wet now :)
-
This could be quite a problem. Most people in the trade will have little knowledge of the TPMS system. It works from the ABS rev counting. It is a simple system as you do not require trick valves in the rim with electronic sensors. However, the software is critical. It took many attempts to arrive at a programme that could define the difference in revs wheel by wheel, allow for turning corners (therefore the differential effect/ rotational speed) and set limits for 1 or more tyres being low on pressure. This then indicates on the INFO screen as an initial warning, or urgent action required. Any change in tyre brand or spec can be within the strict EU tyre diameter limits, but still be enough to cause TPMS to have a problem. I have previously always checked tyre pressure regularly. When I did this on the CX-5 after a couple of weeks I got into the TPMS reset joy. I am now letting the system do it for me. Time will tell. Hope the mixed fitments you have on at present work out ok for you.
I have seen a very large temporary spare at my Mazda Dealer that another user had purchased! That is another subject, the good news is that we are covered under the warranty for roadside breakdown. At least for 3 years anyway. The sealant/compressor systems do work, but not something you would like to do at the roadside, except if you were really stranded. Having said that the compressor is handy. Enough for now.
-
Thanks, Howard. That saved me investigating how TPMS works - what you said corresponds to what my colleague (total petrolhead) said. As before, it's settled itself after the initial resets - will see how a drive to Hatfield and back tomorrow goes.
On another note, as part for the "embarrass Mazda into doing something" campaign last week, I've been contacted by What Car who want to do a piece on the tyre shortage problem as a follow up to the one on windscreens.
-
Finally.....
Now have four new Toyo's fitted courtesy of my friendly local tyre fitter. Half worn Toyo will be kept as a "spare" just in case of a total failure at some point. Remaining three Sonars will be (probably) going on eBay as they have only done a couple of thousand miles.
The article that What Car have done on the tyre fiasco is going in June's issue. Unfortunately, they included a picture of me as well (you have been warned... :o)
Alan
-
Al,
how many miles did you get on your original toyo,s mate I will get my replacements a good few months in advance.
-
They did about 35000 miles and were pretty much down to the indicators. The fronts were slightly worse than the rears.
-
That's really good I think, thanks for letting me know, how much of that was motorway would you say?
-
Hard to say, but I would guess somewhere around 60% motorway, 40% other.
Alan
-
Not sure why these tyres are such a problem.
A quick web search found one supplier (mytyres.co.uk) listing 6 different winter tyres all with the correct 225/55 R19 99V specification. Highest price £165.70 (Toyo but Winter spec).
There is a potential problem with the TPMS, but as long as the tyres are fitted in pairs I don't see it can be much problem.
After I had my puncture I reset the system, but it came on again after a few miles (on the M25).
I stopped and checked all was OK, reset again and it has been OK since.
Just wish I could reset the fuel consumption and see 54.7 mpg. So far not even reached 40 mpg.
-
At the time the search did show up a few winter spec tyres of the correct size and rating. I was told by several different suppliers that, whilst they would be OK, they weren't recommended for all year round use and that they would wear a lot faster than the recommended ones as they are a softer compound. Mine went at about 35k miles (compared with my Forester which still had the original tyres on when it went back at 75k miles). With 4wd cars, the norm is to have the front and rear tyre types to match as well. I believe that the supply problem with Toyo has now been sorted, though.
Ref the fuel consumption, I've had some improvement by using Shell V Power diesel. Still working on this but will update with some proper results soon.
Alan.
-
interesting discussion again, particularly on tyre availability and life. After 12 months and 9,500 miles I would expect to get 35,000 miles at least on my 17 inch Toyo's. Do not expect to match 60,000 plus on my previous X-Trail, 16 inch Dunlop. 4 tyres only, didn't have to use the full size spare.
I will continue fuel consumption comments in that section. 9,500 miles and 40mpg so far.
-
Forgot to say in my previous reference to my X-Trail that I achieved 60.000 miles on 4 tyres by changing them Front to Back at 20,000 and 40,000 miles. Would not recommend that with the CX-5 as it would probably challenge TPS!
-
They did about 35000 miles and were pretty much down to the indicators. The fronts were slightly worse than the rears.
Wow that's pretty awesome I think, I know the tyre is bigger so in theory more milage, we are still at 15k so guessing another year yet, maybe 2 if im lucky.
-
Ah well, 23000 miles on the original Toyos and a whacking great screw gets embedded near the sidewall of one of the front tyres...so had two new Michelin Latitude Sport 3s fitted today for £318. Wasn't particularly impressed with the grip of the Toyos and the Michelins are supposedly pretty good in the wet so I am happy to have new tyres just hacked off to have to change tyres that are only half worn. Have kept the 'good' worn one in case I'm unlucky enough to have an unrepairable puncture on one of the rears in the next few months.
-
Pouring rain today and had to do a short run this morning. I think the Michelins maybe are better in the wet, although that could be just they are brand new.
-
One thing I've noticed with the new car is that it "feels" different to the old one despite being the same spec and having the same Toyo tyres fitted. Hard to describe, but it feels lighter at speed, almost "floaty". A bit like driving on a light covering of snow or ice, or like riding a motorbike with underinflated tyres. Doesn't feel unsafe, just different...
Alan
-
Maybe they've changed the suspension, or the weighting of the steering?
-
I do know they made mods to the suspension in the revamp, which does appear to have cured the "bang" when the suspension topped out over particularly bad bumps. (Something I'm used to as the road into our office has a speed-bump that will rip your spine out if not careful!) It's possible they may have changed the weighting as well as it feels similar at all speeds whereas before it definitely weighted up quite a bit with speed.
Alan
-
Check out the Michelin web site. They now offer a correct fit tyre which has top wet weather performance.
I wouldn't buy anything else if I could avoid it.
Try Costco for the best price.
-
Thanks mike nearly got 19k now, but down to 3mm, not going to chance it this winter and get them changed soon as I see the weather change, I once managed 50k on a Michelin mxv tyre, I was under impression that the longer wear life you have the worst the grip rating due to it being a harder compound, I guess things have come on with tread patterns and compounds. looking at previous reviews it looks like im far short of what some guys are getting, our tyres are set and kept at the correct pressure as per chart by drivers door but 90% town driving cant help for sure.
what are the Michelins like reference road noise?
I will post what I get and price when it happens
-
Not noticed any difference re road noise with the Michelin Latitude Sport 3s on the front.
-
Hi, I'm interested to know what folk are getting out of their Toyo tyres from new. I had my fronts replaced at 17k. It's now fitted with Michelin,looking like they are going to do better milage.
When I had the tyres fitted the garage said this as normal for this tyre and model.
The previous post said he had over 30k out of them?, mine were actually on the wear bars at 17k and my car does mainly long runs.....
-
I wonder who defines the tyres that the CX-5 gets booted with upon delivery - Mazda Jp or the Importer?
Mine came with Yokohama Geolander G98 and from what I see on the dealers forecourt here in Germany, so too are all the others.
Can't actually provide any feedback at this time on how they perform/wear as I had winter tyres fitted from the word go and these are Hankook Winter i cept evo2 SUV which once again appear to be the standard tyre fitted by the dealer for winter.
-
Car with 17" wheels get different tyres to the 19" in the UK, mine are Toyo proxy 35a.
In the USA from what i can make out some get all season tyres as OE.
-
With my previous CX5 I got 27k on Toyo proxy I rotate every 6k
And the replacements were Maxtrek Sierra, they where slightly more quite and slightly better MPG , when traded in at 58k they had 4.5m on them.
-
Hi, it's always the big debate whether to rotate the tyres, if you rotate you can end up replacing all 4 tyres at the same time all be it at a higher milage. Or you don't rotate and replace the fronts after a shorter milage, and get huge milage from the rears, I suspect there's not a lot in it.
Mazda seemed to of used both these makes from new on all of their models.
I personally think Michilin tyres take some beating.
-
Rotating tyres on the AWD versions is always a good idea.
-
The good book states that tyres should be rotated every 10,000km (6,250miles) which, plus or minus a bit, is just about what I drive each year anyway. That said, for half of the year the car is on winter tyres and upon changeover it is common over here to mark the tyres with chalk e.g. HR meaning Hinten Rechts (Rear Right) so that when it is refitted it then goes on Front Right i.e. front to back.
I'm not too sure about a diagonal change as indicated in the manual as most tyres are marked with a direction of rotation arrow and by changing diagonally this would mean that the tyre would we rotating in the wrong direction. My winter tyres are simply marked 'Outside' making diagonal rotation possible but whether or not this would be the case with all 4 x 4 tyres I wouldn't know so it's definitely something worth keeping in mind.
It'll be worth seeing how my summer tyres shape up after a summer of having the caravan hung on the back. If the added weight on the back means the rears wear quicker (which should indeed be the case) then they will in all likelihood balance - wear wise - nicely with the fronts which usually wear quicker anyway making tyre rotation pretty meaningless. Only time will tell of course.
-
Hi, I'm interested to know what folk are getting out of their Toyo tyres from new. I had my fronts replaced at 17k.
35,000 on my first set, but that was right down to the legal minimum (see start of this thread).
Alan
-
Interesting points. Picking up on this topic I support what BigAl says about rotating front to rear with AWD. Like him I had an Xtrail ( for ten years from new to 99,500 miles). Fitted with16'' Dunlop Grandtrek including a full size spare. I rotated front to rear at 20,000 & 40,000 miles. In addition I had to work in the spare following a puncture. The result was that I changed 2 tyres after 56,000 miles with 3mm remaining. You can really notice the deterioration in wet performance below 3mm.
I have now completed 22,000 miles on 225/65R17 Yokohama Geolander G98A with 4mm remaining front, 4.5 rear. Shoulder wear is evident on all tyres slightly more on fronts. This is normal as shoulder cross slots on the pattern are never full depth to minimise noise generation.
I may have gone a bit too far to change front to rear now, but will reconsider in the next month or so.
Regarding tyre choice from OE each Sales Market can influence Tyre Brand Choice from a list of Approved Tyre Types/Brands.
One more little point on posts I take it that reference to 'k' is Thousand and not Kilometres (km).
-
Hi, sorry I meant 17 thousand. So is the answer to change the tyres front to back to get theses milages, I can not get my head round the fact that folk are getting 13 thousand more miles out of their tyres. Having been in the Motor trade( previous life before retiring) it was normal to see between 17 to 22 thousand miles and this is based on many years working on Land Rovers.
The Cx5 we own is driven with care by myself & wife and we are definitely not boy racers.
-
There isn't a simple answer to this. A lot of factors have to be considered.
Just to take a few, and using an extreme example, Large Truck Tyres on HGV's.
A typical Articulated Truck and Trailer on long haul will exceed 100,000 km per tyre all round on a 6x2 tractor unit.
Now take a 6x2 Rigid Refuse Truck on household collections and you may drop to half that.
Make it a 6x4 (double drive) on Bulk Animal Feed delivery in mid Wales and that can drop to 20,000 km.
So it is all down to route, road conditions, power steering, stop/start journeys, power to weight and of course Driving Style.
If you look across the typical Land Rover range and evolution from Defender on Cross Ply Tyres to Discovery, Freelander, Range Rover not to mention all the new 'Exotic' stuff, tyres have many applications and most are now Radial which will give better performance.
In addition 4WD comes in many forms and some systems are kinder on the tyres.
There is a argument for rotating front & rear to improve overall mileage but, as you pointed out, you are likely to have to fit 4 then.
One final point, it is important to fit the tyres with the best cornering force on the rear. This applies to AWD, FWD or RWD.
To have new tyres on the front of a Front Wheel Drive Vehicle and minimal tread on the rears can result in a dangerous oversteer condition.
-
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j124/willpower128/Emos/whathesaid.gif)
A well said and accurately stated reply. Having been in an HGV Rental business for years and responsible for tyre expenditure, I agree entirely.
-
There isn't a simple answer to this. A lot of factors have to be considered.
Just to take a few, and using an extreme example, Large Truck Tyres on HGV's.
A typical Articulated Truck and Trailer on long haul will exceed 100,000 km per tyre all round on a 6x2 tractor unit.
Now take a 6x2 Rigid Refuse Truck on household collections and you may drop to half that.
Make it a 6x4 (double drive) on Bulk Animal Feed delivery in mid Wales and that can drop to 20,000 km.
So it is all down to route, road conditions, power steering, stop/start journeys, power to weight and of course Driving Style.
If you look across the typical Land Rover range and evolution from Defender on Cross Ply Tyres to Discovery, Freelander, Range Rover not to mention all the new 'Exotic' stuff, tyres have many applications and most are now Radial which will give better performance.
In addition 4WD comes in many forms and some systems are kinder on the tyres.
There is a argument for rotating front & rear to improve overall mileage but, as you pointed out, you are likely to have to fit 4 then.
One final point, it is important to fit the tyres with the best cornering force on the rear. This applies to AWD, FWD or RWD.
To have new tyres on the front of a Front Wheel Drive Vehicle and minimal tread on the rears can result in a dangerous oversteer condition.
The reason its recommened to rotate the tyres on AWD cars is to protect the transmission, essential on fixed 4wd systems.
With the Audi Quattro i had the tyres had to be within 3mm.
-
You fellows seem to forget that tire rotation is recommend by Mazda and they want you to have a good experience with your car [except for the satnav :'( :( ] and you can also give them a good wash and coat of wax inside and out 8) at the same time.
-
Pity that Mazda as standard don't give you a jack to help in rotating wheels.
Anyway, anyone who's used a tyre-shop to do the rotation, how much do they typically charge?
Thanks.
-
Pity that Mazda as standard don't give you a jack to help in rotating wheels.
Anyway, anyone who's used a tyre-shop to do the rotation, how much do they typically charge?
Thanks.
No use to you whatsoever, but over the pond here I am charged €15 for changing my now winter wheels for summer wheels and additional €20 per season for the dealer to store the wheels until the process is reversed. On my OH's Fiat 500 I change the wheels myself and we store them in the garage, but with these much bigger SUV wheels it's far too much hard work lugging the 17" jobbies about so what I'm charged for my wheel changeover is money well spent in my book.
-
The reason its recommened to rotate the tyres on AWD cars is to protect the transmission, essential on fixed 4wd systems.
I'd be interested in reading more on this so any chance you could provide sourced info substantiating what you say. Thanks.
-
I think on the CX5 AWD then the tyres on the front have to have an equal amount of tread otherwise the wheel sensors will detect that the wheels are not rotating at the same speed and will instigate drive to the rear. I dont think it will matter if the rear tyres are uneven as the rear wheel rotation is not measured. In a proper 4 wd system then all the tyres need to have roughly the same amount of tread otherwise the ratio of front to rear drive will keep changing. The CX5 is essentially a FWD car with a haldex coupling to transfer to the rear only if grip is lost on the front wheel. I believe it says in the book that if you use a spare or space saver spare it should go on the rear as it wont matter if its a slightly different diameter.
-
I believe all the wheel speeds are measured via the ABS sensors, they are used to detect a flat tyre, so see no reason why they arn't used with the AWD?
-
Yes all the wheels are measured for the ABS and tyre pressure system, but not for the 2wd/4wd system switch, unless some percentage of drive is being given to the rear (rare). If you had a space saver that had a slightly different diameter on the rear you may get a tyre pressure warning and possibly an ABS warning but it wouldn't harm the drive train. If you had it on the front then the system would be constantly adjusting the amount of rear drive to try to make up for the supposedly slipping front wheel but it wouldn't be able to correct it as there isn't really any slipping. I remember when the BMW X3 first came out there were a lot of transmission problems caused by slighly differently worn tyres or even tread patterns as these cars are perm 4wd.
-
Pity that Mazda as standard don't give you a jack to help in rotating wheels.
Anyway, anyone who's used a tyre-shop to do the rotation, how much do they typically charge?
Thanks.
Depends when you bought it. In December 2013 mine came with a jack. I bought the spare but had to specify that I already had a jack.
Baffled by some of the discussions about wheel speeds.
The tyre pressure system needs readings from all four wheels.
The AWD system sends power to the rear when the rear wheels are turning slower than the front, but that is sensed in the front/rear drive train.
-
Had my tyres rotated at Mazda Dealer yesterday - No Charge. Quote from independent garage which I have used in the past £40 being 1 hour's labour. Reason I had my tyres rotated was that fronts seemed to have worn excessively. Had a breakdown on December, due to oil being deteriorated, and dealer 100 miles away from home decided to do a full service at 7500 miles. They reported front tyres at 4mm and rear tyres at 5mm. Car now done 9500 miles and front tyres looked a bit more worn than back so rotated. Tyres are Yoko Geolandars 17". Very poor mileage from tyres - very disappointed. Last Car - Honda - tyres lasted 35K aveerage.
-
Had a breakdown on December, due to oil being deteriorated.......
I notice that your info states you owning a 2015 model. If this is so it would appear to confirm that even the facelift models are suffering from this oil dilution problem.