Mazda CX-5 Forums
Technical Section => Bodywork => Topic started by: BigAl on May 30, 2014, 10:45:03 am
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Just as a follow up to http://mazdacx5forums.co.uk/index.php?topic=33.0 (http://mazdacx5forums.co.uk/index.php?topic=33.0)
I bit the bullet and got the dealer to replace the NS mirror last week whilst it was being serviced. Finished cost was £130.21+VAT for the complete mirror assembly (not the LDW system version, fortunately) and 1/2 hour labour at £41+VAT. However, that doesn't include the colour cap for the mirror or the glass. Still, it was better that the £350 I was originally quoted.
As predicted, the glass did break when they removed it. I had pointed out to them in advance (when this possibility was mentioned) that if breaking a perfectly good mirror was necessary in order to remove it, then the design wasn't fit for purpose. They have agreed with that and I won't have to pay for that to be replaced.
I have kept the complete old mirror assembly and will be having a close look at it to see what the actual fault was when I get time. If I find it was something that could have simply been "fixed", I'll be having words (again) with Mazda.
Alan
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Update...
I spent a few minutes looking at the old mirror assembly yesterday. Job was probably made easier in that the mirror was off the car and the glass was already removed. So, despite the dealer telling me that it had failed because it had been hit and that there was nothing that could be dismantled and fixed, I found:-
- The mirror folding drive is separate to the main mirror frame, you just need the glass out to get at the last screw (they said the motor wasn't removable)
- The only problem with it was the small gear on the worm/wheel drive mechanism was in two pieces
- The drive mechanism is protected from shock load by a large spring shock-absorber; hence the small gear, which is about the diameter of a 1p coin must simply have fractured or was possibly cracked on assembly
This took me about 10 minutes and required two different screwdrivers. Will post some pics later...
Alan.
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Right, door mirror with covers removed and drive motor taken out, plus cover removed from drive motor. It's pretty much impossible to remove the cover without taking the motor out (which needs the glass removed from the back, which breaks in the process). Also, be aware that you would have to remove the door interior panels to do this as the cable which feeds the motor, mirror tilt and heater passes through the centre of the pivot and shock absorber spring, so has to be disconnected.
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p486/alan85/Mazda%20CX-5/IMG_5627_zps5a139402.jpg)
View inside drive motor. The motor is attached to a circuit board and just slides out, revealing the broken gear at the bottom
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p486/alan85/Mazda%20CX-5/IMG_5628_zps8f7de5ec.jpg)
Drive motor and board removed. You can see the spring shock absorber. The flat tang on the drive motor fits into the end of a worm gear.
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p486/alan85/Mazda%20CX-5/IMG_5629_zpsd77c8918.jpg)
End of the worm visible at the bottom, poxy little broken part of gear wheel to the left. Bottom of housing is full of white grease, which obscures the remainder of the gear.
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p486/alan85/Mazda%20CX-5/IMG_5630_zps236164c4.jpg)
That little gear breaking cost £205 to fix, not including replacing the mirror colour cap and the mirror glass. Next stop, Mazda customer services...
Alan
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I admire your zeal and ingenuity to get to the culprit, but do you honestly think that Mazda would donate the time and intricacy of workmanship required to just replace such an item ?
Granted, it is such a stupid item to break which results in such a heavy penalty to you. But I doubt that they will change the principle of replacing the entire assembly in favour of a repair.
I would guess the best you can hope for is a goodwill payment for your trouble of pointing out the defect.
Good luck (http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j124/willpower128/339782fd-12f1-402d-a9b3-7fb63f963ce1_zps57c28196.jpg)
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I don't doubt you are correct! My issue with it it that it is bad design. It took them 1/2 hour to remove and replace the whole assembly; for another ten minutes, (what it took me) a simple gear costing a few pence could have been changed, saving about £150 in the process.
At the risk of sounding old, I don't believe that some modern engineering design is as good as it was. They are very good at using the latest techniques to manufacture, but nothing is designed to be fixed. The approach is, if they can't replace the entire assembly or plug a laptop in and re-programme it, then it's not cost-effective. As someone who has been in engineering for over 30 years, that makes me sad. :( It'll get to the point where nothing is fixable, you'll just replace the item or even the car.
The other thing I want to get to the bottom of, is that I know there has been a recall on these mirrors, but I don't know the details. The technician who mentioned it to me when he first looked at the problem went off to speak to his manager, but came back and told me that "it wasn't this particular problem". I asked what the recall was, but he wouldn't tell me even when pressed - I got the impression he had been told not to say anything more, so I'm wondering whether this was actually the problem all along.
Alan
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I totally agree with your sentiments as I too was in engineering for over 40 years. However in this day we are always in pursuit of efficiency at the cost of in depth knowledge. Sad but half the "technicians" of today would have no idea how to fix your problem. Which is a sad condemnation of how they gain the knowledge to maintain our vehicles.
Regarding your recall, have a look here, you might be lucky..... http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.asp
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Further update to the mirror saga...
Noticed a whistling noise from the nearside of the car shortly after the mirror was replaced. Traced it down to the colour cap which had come loose on the inner side against the window, opening up a gap and creating the noise. One of the tabs that holds it in place on the mirror body was broken. So the two parts you need to remove to get access to the mirror - the colour cap and the glass - both obviously break when removed... Which means that you have to break two perfectly good parts to get at another part that needs replacing. good design, Mazda ::) ::) ::)
Dealer is obtaining one for me - he hasn't asked me to pay for it..............yet.
Try not to break your door mirrors, folks (especially if you have lane departure warning fitted).
Alan
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Just trawling my way through this forum and find this and the linked post very interesting because I had exactly the same problem on my CX-3 which is very similar, if not the same.
It had not been struck (although the bin men had folded it some time previously due to a galoot parking opposite) and I actually heard the gear break up while trying to power the mirror folded. It was done under warranty but the service guy said it never ever happens - fibber!. Like stated above, these mirrors need handling carefully as they are a weak spot.
Ive added the instructions for getting the glass out and in addition to the instruction for warming, I would pour a whole washing up bowl of hot (but not boiling) water over it to warm the plastic clips first. Not warming it on anything but the hottest of summer days will almost certainly break the glass.
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Interesting stuff. The driver's side mirror on my CX5 won't adjust vertically - it seems to have become disconnected from the mechanism. I might have a go at trying to clip it back into place now I know where the clip itself is, although I am quite scared of breaking it.
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Interesting stuff. The driver's side mirror on my CX5 won't adjust vertically - it seems to have become disconnected from the mechanism. I might have a go at trying to clip it back into place now I know where the clip itself is, although I am quite scared of breaking it.
If you adjust the mirror so it points as high up as possible you should be able to see behind.
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The other thing I want to get to the bottom of, is that I know there has been a recall on these mirrors, but I don't know the details. The technician who mentioned it to me when he first looked at the problem went off to speak to his manager, but came back and told me that "it wasn't this particular problem".
Not heard of a problem with the FL (facelift model mirrors) although I have read of problems with earlier model mirrors that were vibrating badly. Where these have been replaced at cost to Mazda, they have been replaced with the newer FL model mirrors.