Mazda CX-5 Forums

Technical Section => Engine/Transmission/Powertrain/Exhaust => Topic started by: Clarice on April 23, 2018, 08:17:23 am

Title: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on April 23, 2018, 08:17:23 am
Well, we have covered a grand Total of 1700 miles in Clarice, initially all was well and we were pleased with the comfort and performance together with a very respectable 50MPG indicated on the computer ( taken with a pinch of salt ) However I was standing next to her nibs when the wife started her up from cold at home and was alarmed by a nasty metallic rattle from the offside of the engine bay as Clarice initially for a few seconds ran on three cylinders before resuming her four cylinder beat. No dash warning lights illuminated when it occured :(

Wife then told me she had done this once before a few days earlier, naturally Mazda were immediately called for Clarice to be picked up, she was taken to our local dealer for the fault to be ascertained and hopefully put to rights... awaiting an outcome at present.

Has anyone experienced this from the 2.2 diesel engine so early ? The rattle to me was similar to a cam chain tensioner allowing the chain to thrash about before oil pressure kicks in and keeps it taut. The annoying point to this is that she runs absolutely perfectly once the three cylinder cough has gone and the rattle is not persistent. When she returns I will have my mobile on video to capture the cough and rattle when starting up as I know this will probably not rear it's ugly head at the garage. mobiles do have their uses ;D

Anyone got ideas as to what this could be, as to date we have had five Mazda's in total, our last Model 3 had the same diesel engine as Clarice and ran perfectly in the three years we had her
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: BigAl on April 23, 2018, 09:26:23 am
That's an odd one, have never heard of that before. Await outcome with interest...

Deduct 3MPG from the trip average, that should give you the true figure (based on logging fuel and mileage for the past 6 years)

Alan
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on April 24, 2018, 10:01:06 am
Well Clarice was checked out by the Garage and Big surprise..Nothing found amiss, so it's down to having the Mobile on video record at any future cold start-up so that should this re-occur i can then capture what is going on and send it to the Workshop manager who has indicated that it would assist them and Mazda as they have no data at present regarding these issues. Mobile will travel everywhere in future. GGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 01, 2018, 04:50:26 pm
Ho Bloody Hum, Started Clarice up and Lo!! another three cyiinder start up which after 5 seconds or so chimed in on four which luckily I have captured on video on my smartphone, we have done this every day since the clattering 3 cylinder which started this thread. Today 1/5/2018 I received a call from her nibs to indicate that this happened again at her work to the extent others in the car park looked around to see what was about to drop off.
Nibs had her phone on record as she started up so we have this lousy noise and racket which we will be forwarding to Mazda HQ via Lodge Garage so that they can sort this out. Having had 5 Mazda's in total this one being the most expensive we have purchased looks to be a right royal sodding problem that has really P****d me off big style.
Will await what Mazda UK has to offer on this one but at this time I am looking to throw it back where it came from.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 03, 2018, 10:32:13 am
So having downloaded the two incidents of three not four cylinders doing their job we have been contacted by the Garage following these two captures being forwarded to the big cheeses at Mazda,who have indicated that a procedure will be made to aileviate the problem. Less than 2000 covered

We have now taken Clarice back to the Garage for this to hopefully be sorted out, along with the leather capping on the back offside door which is turning white at it's closure point at the rear end of the door, the dirty mark left by the mechanic on it's last trip on the drivers side 'A' Pillar internal capping.

The front proximity sensors to be checked as well because on two separate occasions whilst parked at the front of a queue with nothing in front they have  gone off  looking like the sound bar indicators of a graphic equaliser going up and down.

It's beginning to remind me of the Friday Night heaps that FORD used to be famous for back in the day
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Bert321 on May 03, 2018, 07:04:35 pm
I hope you actually get someone who wants to cure your problem thus time mate.  Escalate it to Mazda UK if you need to, they were quite helpful on a couple of occasions for us.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 03, 2018, 08:11:20 pm
Good News............The mark on the door and 'A' Pillar have gone.  Not so good news.....According to the garage when the computer was interrogated it threw up nothing regarding the front sensors.
They have gone through the first line check according to the Mazda guide regarding the Three cylinder start up and done a clean through of the injectors, if this does not cure the problem then it's another trip back to the garage for the injectors to be replaced.
My instinct tells me that we'll be returning to the garage
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 08, 2018, 11:13:15 am
Taken Clarice back today for a re-check, in short she hasn't played up again but has made a few rumbles at it so we'll just have to wait and see if she plays ball or gives it all another try, update will commence once she returns.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 11, 2018, 07:54:33 am
Well, got Clarice back after two days at the Garage with another negative result from the Garage computer regarding the start up on 3 cylinders and the proximity sensors going ape twice but 35 miles added to her odometer and sandy footprints all over the drivers floor mat.
Most unimpressed by Mazda and Lodge Garage at this time regarding this issue which has been recorded twice by smartphone videos
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: BigAl on May 11, 2018, 03:20:48 pm
Post some details on their Facebook page, that generally gets a reply.
https://www.facebook.com/MazdaUK/ (https://www.facebook.com/MazdaUK/)

Alan
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Bert321 on May 11, 2018, 04:08:55 pm
Or phone Mazda customer service.  We've had great results from them. 
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 13, 2018, 09:08:20 am
Thanks Al and Bert I will be contacting Mazda UK soonest as Clarice has now hit 2273 miles. Wife in a hurry this morning and mobile up in the bedroom. Started up....you guessed it another 3 cylinders start up jobby so it'll be someone getting a rocket up the rear.

Apart from this recurrent annoyance we both love the car, Smooth, Quiet, ( especially after the Mazda3 Coupe which if you were sitting in the rear you couldn't hear any conversation in the front seats ) pretty good MPG considering her frontal barn door area and the ability to look down on the rest of the drivers in the lower riding cars, added to which we find that those jerks in BMW's Mercs, Audi's etc.  My opinion of course !! is that the more Prestigious the badge the bigger the idiot holding the wheel of said jalopy ) don't try and get into your boot area when YOU are in lane 2 or 3 of the Motorway or Dual cabbageway which of course is an added bonus.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on May 13, 2018, 09:51:04 am
I'd be starting to threaten to reject the car and demanding a new one. Get some advice from Citizens Advice or something cite the correct terms in the consumer rights act https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 16, 2018, 07:30:39 pm
Using my Smartphone video I took another shot at start-up of Clarice today covering the whole of the instrument Binnacle, three cylinder thrashing start up commenced  to 1800 RPM to the extent that I expected a piston to break up it was that bad and I have plenty of working experience with all sorts of engines.

Took phone with captured video to Lodge Garage where it was shown, was advised that Mazda have sent out a message regarding piston slap on start up to be expected under certain conditions, REALLY ?

My 2015 Mazda 3 with the exact same diesel engine NEVER made such a cacophony of noise and rattle on start-up in the 3 years we owned her which is why we went for another diesel in the CX5.

I have now contacted Mazda UK and have sent the video capture direct to them for their investigation and await the outcome.

Not only is the engine rattled so am I.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: BigAl on May 17, 2018, 02:13:38 pm
Maybe also look at an independent assessment by the RAC or similar? You might have to pay for it, but when proved correct you might be able to claim it back?

One thing I have noticed over the years is that garages (in general) no longer take any notice of customers who voice an opinion over a fault. They now seem to have this arrogant "we've had the manufacturer training" attitude and only want to follow their instructions. They can't think outside of those parameters, sadly.

Alan
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 17, 2018, 10:04:21 pm
The Latest....Mazda UK have contacted Mazda Europe who have issued the bulletin that piston slap is to be expected under some start up conditions with the new CX-5 engine which has been completely re-engineered from the old one.

Really so Mazda now build in obsolescence not design it out.Next step will be to contact someone with abilities to make others accountable because had I wanted a three cylinder tractor with attendant rattling engine I'd have bought one not spent £30.000 on a CX-5
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on May 18, 2018, 08:41:59 am
That is a very disappointing response. Having googled piston slap it seems 'normal' to some extent but if it's happening to the extent that it is audible then surely that's metal on metal that is going to wear and go beyond the accepted tolerance?

I guess if it does fail at some point you do now have an audit trail back to them saying what it is and not to worry.

Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 19, 2018, 03:30:24 pm
According to the person at Mazda UK who admitted he was not technically minded, I was contacted on 17/05/2018 to be informed that Mazda Europe had put out a bulletin that in certain conditions the 2.2 diesel ( again according to the Non Technically Minded person ) which has been extensively redesigned with new pistons and internals etc etc. will have piston slap when starting,

Oh!! so piston slap sounds like the pistons have heavy metallic knocking going on does it as it AGAIN started on three with the engine revs rising to 1800RPM.

It feels to me that Mazda have designed a major problem into this latest engine offering which they have yet to identify, I thought progress was to design out problems not the other way around so as they will not listen to me I will take this further with someone else who enjoys rocking the boat with manufacturers of faulty goods.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 20, 2018, 08:33:05 am
Hi TWA,

You are correct in your paper trail  assumption ( or computer input in this case ) Having worked in the Motor Trade and acquiring a Motor Vehicle Technician status albeit back in the 1970's I have heard many examples of Piston Slap and this does not sound like any I have ever heard , it sounds like no oil is getting around the engine ( Yes I have checked and their is plenty ) with the result it sounds like 2 heavy bells crashing together on the offside of the engine together with audible 3 cylinder firing. I understand that these engines have chain driven counterweights and am wondering if these might be the cause along with duff injector (s ) but as it doesn't do it EVERY time it is a frustrating problem.
 
If the engine gives out totally then they can pinpoint it but as stated I don't spend that amount of money to cure someone else's screw up I am not a guinea pig for Mazda.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 21, 2018, 08:36:51 pm
Took recording of rattling diesel to independent Motor Vehicle Technician..... His response on hearing this start up rattle... Expletives deleted of course, the oil strainer is blocked and the oil is not getting around the areas it needs to. When i told him it had covered less than 3000 miles. expletives deleted take it back to the garage or write to the CEO of Mazda UK and reject the car. It appears that the oil pressure is not pulling through quick enough to get the metal parts from each other hence this heavy rattle on start up.
My stimation is big ends hitting the crankshaft journals

As far as I am concerned if Mazda do not get their act in order I will plaster this all over the internet and cause a lot of grief for the Marque.I have advised one person already NOT to buy a CX-5 Diesel and will continue to do so when asked.

Take me to Court because i would welcome it especially as a major manufacturer cannot admit to having designed and built an engine that has a flaw and further to that it is not the first time these Shyactiv diesels have been found wanting.

Mazda the ball is in your Court.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on May 22, 2018, 09:04:04 am
I'd try rejecting the car first, not fit for purpose.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 23, 2018, 08:15:48 am
Recordings of Clarice clattering into life along with other recordings 2 taken on the same day as she also rattled into life whereby no clatter. These have been forwarded to Mazda UK for investigation. According to Salesman the Garage are bound by Mazda themselves as to course of action taken which they cannot baulk or they become responsible for what is a manufacturers problem.
Awaiting outcome , if not positive then will take action myself accordingly via alternative route.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: BigAl on May 23, 2018, 10:11:48 am
Back in 2013, I had an issue with not being able to get tyres for my first CX5 175 sport-nav (at the time Toyo were the only manufacturer who made that size who Mazda "approved") Toyo had none available in the country. Out of frustration, I contacted What Car who ran a piece on it, contacted Mazda, etc. Mazda then "approved" a different make and covered the cost of the three I needed to keep me going until I could fit a full set of Toyos. At the same time they also did a story on another CX5 owner who had a persistent gearbox rattle, they helped him reject the car and get a replacement.

May be your next step if they don't play ball...

Alan
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 23, 2018, 07:03:59 pm
Latest...........\you will love this, Lodge Garage called for us to take Clarice to them on the instruction of Mazda UK......for a COMPRESSION TEST ?
I know there is nothing amiss with the top end and informed the Technician at Lodge that in my estimation the Oil Pump has a relief valve which is not functioning correctly all the time in that the pump cannot produce the pressure to keep big ends from the Crank Journals which is causing this heavy rattle and effectively will wreck either the big end bearings and/or the Crank but as a cusomer what do I know, well 13 years in the Motor Trade as a fully qualified technician and followed by 28 years in the service of her Britannic Majesty as a Police Officer before I retired some 5 years ago.
Next I will do what Big Al has suggested and the CEO of Mazda UK will also be e-mailed regarding this absolute shambles relating to this most expensive thrashing Machine and the inability of his own house to sort it out.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 24, 2018, 07:08:30 pm
Contacted What Car for their input having given the story of Woe along with the recording of a 3 cylinder Thrashing machine engine. Will await outcome.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 26, 2018, 10:25:28 am
Picked up Clarice yesterday from the Garage having had the compression test completed which showed.....surprise , surprise that nothing was amiss and all cylinders were well within tolerance of each other.
Something I could have told them was a waste of time, they are looking at the wrong end of the engine. Contacted Mazda Customer relations who were less than helpful over this issue. The staff member Stuart when informed that we suspect an oil pressure issue indicated that they would authorise the sump to be removed.. GET THIS....At OUR expense ( £116 ) and only for a photograph to be taken of the bottom part of the engine.No strip down for confirmation of my thoughts.
I presume to confirm that the bottom end parts are all in the right position AND if any oil leak resulted then we would have to deal with Lodge Garage over it as it would be their problem not Mazda's.
Having seen the CEO's statement regarding Mazda's customer service and having dealt with Mazda's UK customer service department it appears that they are not on the same song sheet even by a Country Mile.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on May 27, 2018, 06:30:38 am
E-mail sent to Jeremy Thomson CEO Mazda UK yesterday regarding this saga. Will await any outcome but indicated that I was far from happy with the CX-5 and Mazda's response and actions so far.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on May 31, 2018, 05:54:20 pm
So having downloaded the two incidents of three not four cylinders doing their job we have been contacted by the Garage following these two captures being forwarded to the big cheeses at Mazda,who have indicated that a procedure will be made to aileviate the problem. Less than 2000 covered

We have now taken Clarice back to the Garage for this to hopefully be sorted out, along with the leather capping on the back offside door which is turning white at it's closure point at the rear end of the door, the dirty mark left by the mechanic on it's last trip on the drivers side 'A' Pillar internal capping.

The front proximity sensors to be checked as well because on two separate occasions whilst parked at the front of a queue with nothing in front they have  gone off  looking like the sound bar indicators of a graphic equaliser going up and down.

It's beginning to remind me of the Friday Night heaps that FORD used to be famous for back in the day

Mine does the 3 cylinder start up (2018 model with 1900 miles but did it since new).  I initially thought it was air and it seemed better after I bled a bit out but its back again.  It has the most spine tingling metallic knock with it when it does it.  I was thinking of putting an ohmmeter on the glow plugs but they are partially buried so it will have to wait until I get chance.

As for the front parking sensors, I’ve had 3 Cx-5s, a 16 (which was stolen), a 17 and an 18.  All 3 of them set the parking sensors off at the same set of lights with nothing in front (Hyde Rd, Manchester).  I can only assume there is some sort of radio signal at that particular light???  Doesn’t do it anywhere else.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 03, 2018, 11:23:49 am
Hi Anchorman,
If your 2018 CX5 does this 3 cylinder start up then refer to Mazda Customer services and e-mail Jeremy Thomson the CEO, it will of course get put down to his 2nd in command Tracey Lines who I am now corresponding with and they are loaning me another CX-5 for 2 weeks for a comparison check on start up noise.

I already know that there will be a marked difference as the previous Mazda3 we had with the same engine NEVER made any such noise in the 3 years we had her. I suspect the loaner will not display anything like the same noise so we can push this further and ultimately reject the vehicle but you have to allow them to address the issue 3 times before this action is taken

The Kid in Customer advice stated that Mazda have changed the internals of the latest Skyactiv diesels to which my answer was that Mazda have introduced a problem to this engine with this attempt to accelerate warm up of the engine and Catalyst.

Already sounds to me that there is more than just my engine cold start up which is problematic, but, until those of us with this latest introduced failure give Mazda UK a real hammering over it then the company will not listen to individuals only groups.

You can highlight it to 'What Car' as I did because the more complaints they receive over this the more likely they will begin to look into it and start running articles over Mazda as a company for introduction of technology poorly thought out and badly tested. Then failing to address this with customers who have spent  a lot of money on a vehicle that fails to live up to the Hype.

This is not the first time Mazda have introduced engines that did not stand up to endurance ( I am one of the few who was in a Mazda Garage when the rotary engines gave big problems with seals that broke up requiring engines to be stripped down at 20,000 miles in the 1970's )

If possible video via smartphone each start-up both good and bad of your CX-5 which is a pain but without evidence Mazda will NOT do anything other than state it is piston slap but from what you describe it sounds like mine and that was more like piston break up but do not do anything to the vehicle yourself or you invalidate your warranty and they like nothing better than to wriggle out of that area.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 05, 2018, 12:47:27 pm
Clarice at Lodge Garage today for oil to be drained and kept in clean container and for sump removal and photographs to be taken ( Authorised by Mazda UK ) will await for any furtherance to this.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 07, 2018, 10:49:16 am
Well, Oil changed, sump removed and photographs taken. Quite what it will prove other than the oil was black ( expected as diesels chew oil up anyway ) is a mystery to me. Given the banging came from the lower extremities of the engine I would have thought that a removal of the oil pump and big end /main bearing cap removal and inspection would have been made at the same time just to verify or disprove any lower end problems.
But No !!
To clarify this however, Mazda UK may have authorised but Lodge Garage footed the bill for the oil and sump removal NOT Mazda, so a big Plus for Lodge Garage and NIL points for Mazda from me, to treat a franchised dealer of your product in this way is to me a sign that Mazda as a company just do not worry about losing custom which given in the 1970's they were almost bankrupt and were effectively bailed out by FORD they are in need of an immediate attitude adjustment not only to their customers but to their dealers as well.
Unless the oil is scientifically checked for contaminants be they diesel or metallic then this really proves nothing at all other than I have had an early oil change on Clarice
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on June 08, 2018, 03:25:40 am
Sorry, I meant to follow your thread but I really struggle to find stuf on this forum. Having the sump off is exactly the kind of thing I don’t want them to do. I worked on diesels for years and this knock at start up isn’t the kind of mechanical failure that looking at the crank would sort. If it was, it wouldn’t run so smoothly after a few seconds. I did a bit of playing round and at some stage I will check the resistance of the glow plug because one thing I noticed is that if you turn the ignition on without starting it (all the lights on but foot away from the brake) you’ll see the glow plug light for the briefest second just above the left gauges. However, the glow plugs go on working for several minutes to aid cold combustion. If you wait a good 30 seconds and try again, see if it starts any better. Mine seems to. I suspect we have a glow plug issue.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 08, 2018, 06:54:30 am
Hi Anchorman,

According to the technical blurb I believe these glow plugs on the latest Skyactiv diesels are 'CERAMIC' units which heat up to 1600 degrees in 2 seconds along with' Piezo' multi hole injectors so allowing for the part opening of valves from start up using the hot air right from the start to heat up the catalyst quicker leading to reduction of Nox and particulates rather than going down the route of 'Ad Blu' to achieve the same action.

Personally I find if you have an engine which is an 'interference fit' unit where all moving parts are to very tight and close to almost touching tolerances that this latest introduced variable valve technology is close to turning the engine into a wreck in short order and these 3 cylinder start ups are a result of the valves being part open to achieve this coupled with the 1800 rpm to try and overcome an introduced problem by the technical engineers.

If it introduces 'piston slap' as a result then to me metal on metal means a short lived engine and as we all know Mazda have been past masters in the art of duff engines ( Rotary being a prime example ) pushing limits with unforeseen results merely to reduce pollution from it's latest engine offerings using high end technology with the dubious results you and I have witnessed first hand. The removal of a big end and crank journal cap would reveal if this uneven start procedure has had a telling effect on the most stressed parts of the engine subject to the highest compression and rotational forces which are reliant on high oil pressure in the shortest time

Lastly I would advise that although you have experience in diesels over many years if the engine is firing on 3 not 4 at start up then return it to the garage as it is under warranty, if you carry out any adjustments yourself and it goes pear shaped Mazda will contest that anything you have done has led to the engine problems and at £12,000 for a new engine even I have to grit my teeth and allow the garage to get to grips with this problem even though as you, I have a Motor Technicians experience behind me and it grips me up that in 2018 we have problematic engines which we are expected to just accept by Mazda as being 'normal' well in my book it is not especially when it costs £30,000 for it.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on June 08, 2018, 07:06:00 am
Don’t worry, I’ve got an “understanding “ with my dealer. Checking the resistance can be done without removing them.

It sounds like you’ve got your own ideas anyway.  Keep us informed.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: CX-Fiver on June 08, 2018, 08:47:53 am
Clarice, I have huge sympathy for the problem you're having and genuinely hope it's rectified soon.

However, I think you're a bit strong with "as we all know Mazda have been past masters in the art of duff engines ( Rotary being a prime example )" comment. If that's the case, why on earth did you buy a CX-5? I've had 3 Mazda's; a MX-5, Mazda6 (with the 2.2 diesel engine) and now a CX-5 (again, with the 2.2 diesel) and they've all been faultless.

Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on June 08, 2018, 02:07:21 pm
Yes, I must admit, I found that comment a bit unnecessary. The current range of Skyactive engine are fantastic in my opinion especially now they’ve cured oil dilution.

I’m currently in the USA running a new rental with the 2.5 engine and it’s superb.  I’ll certainly have one next time if it makes it to our shores.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 09, 2018, 06:47:52 am
As stated Mazda have in the past made a right pigs ear over rotaries, I was in the trade at the time and my comment stands. I too have had 5 Mazda's 3 MX-5's and a Mazda 3 coupe 2.2 diesel Skyactiv which have all performed faultlessly. Hence why we went for the new CX-5 with Diesel engine based on the 3 which went for 3 years with no problems and NEVER made the thrashing and crashing this one does
This CX-5 has not and paying top dollar for a vehicle with an engine that has a fault that the dealer can't find and Anchorman who has exactly the same problem to me means that the desire to utilise technology to overcome one problem has resulted in the rise of another, in this case 'Piston Slap' which if you heard the noise first hand YOU would feel the same way I do especially as the reticence of Mazda to accept there is a fault which I have captured on more than one occasion yet have not corrected it angers me no end.
I don't put into print that I cannot prove, if you look on other sites regarding Mazda Skyactiv diesels there are many out there less than happy with them, if I'd seen those sites beforehand I would have given the CX5 diesel a wide berth and gone for petrol instead except that Mazda don't currently make a petrol/automatic variant.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Bert321 on June 09, 2018, 07:18:34 am
Mazda don't currently make a petrol/automatic variant.
They don't sell them in the UK but the 2.5 petrol auto is available elsewhere.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 10, 2018, 01:32:35 pm
According to Tracey Lines who is at Mazda UK the latest 'Skyactiv X' 2 litre petrol is to be offered later this year in automatic form. I shall however not be one of the front runners to purchase said vehicle as i feel hard bitten by the problems experienced with the latest Skyactiv diesel offering in the CX-5 i currently own.

I would add that as a vehicle it is extremely hard to fault the CX-5 and thought I made that point clear early on in my narrative, it looks good from the outside, is very refined inside, handles very well for an SUV, gives good MPG for such a high vehicle and is very quiet compared to our previous Mazda3 Coupe.

My issue is solely with the engine which does on occasion start on 3 cylinders and a horrifying rattle which accompanies it, this does not happen on each cold start-up nor does it do so on any particular weather related day, it is sporadic as is the engine RPM which can vary from 800 to 1800 on any cold start-up which in this day and age should not occur with faults having been ironed out pre production if any are experienced by purchasing customers then they should be listened to and not merely sidelined with excuses that do not wash.

My comments are directed solely at Mazda as a Company for their failure to act expediently to rectify a problem with the one major unit that can make or break the vehicle and the owners enjoyment of same, not to individuals owners of Mazda's of whom I am one and have owned as stated a number of them over the course of several years which have given me no cause for concern performing faultlessly only seeing the Garage for the service intervals to be completed and nothing else.

Hope this clarifies my situation to those of you who have this vehicle and experience no problems with them in which I hope that you continue with trouble free motoring for many years.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 11, 2018, 07:26:23 am
Mazda don't currently make a petrol/automatic variant.
They don't sell them in the UK but the 2.5 petrol auto is available elsewhere.
Three cold start-ups in a row on three separate days AND YES, it rattled each time although starting on 4 not 3 cylinders, latest being today so will persist with this until we receive the loan CX-5 from Mazda UK for cold start comparison. I will video capture each vehicle on cold start up every day. it's time consuming and an annoyance but if it proves a point I will persist.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 15, 2018, 02:07:08 pm
Today 15/06/18 we have been loaned a silver CX-5, by Mazda UK, to the same spec as Clarice for a two week evaluation.
Took both around the same course Silver one first followed by Clarice wife driving and me as passenger with following observations:-

Silver One

1 Engine runs quieter than Clarice
2. Under initial acceleration there is NO diesel rattle
3. Engine pick up and go is noticeably quicker and quieter
4. Kick down comes in easier with only engine RPM rising- No Lag or induction roar heard in Cabin
5. MPG noticeably better by 8 to 10 MPG

Clarice

1. Engine start up with slight rattle
2. Initial acceleration diesel rattle is easily heard in cabin
3. Engine power and pick up slower and noisier than Silver One
4. Kick Down comes in with lack of urgency and definate induction roar heard in Cabin
5. MPG down on Silver One by 8 to 10MPG.

This was conducted in exactly the same manner using exactly the same route in exactly the same weather conditions with both vehicles and already the difference in both of them is marked.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on June 15, 2018, 03:37:45 pm
Very interesting comparison. Hopefully a Mazda engineer will do something similar and have the same conclusions.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on June 15, 2018, 10:42:13 pm
Today 15/06/18 we have been loaned a silver CX-5, by Mazda UK, to the same spec as Clarice for a two week evaluation.
Took both around the same course Silver one first followed by Clarice wife driving and me as passenger with following observations:-

Silver One

1 Engine runs quieter than Clarice
2. Under initial acceleration there is NO diesel rattle
3. Engine pick up and go is noticeably quicker and quieter
4. Kick down comes in easier with only engine RPM rising- No Lag or induction roar heard in Cabin
5. MPG noticeably better by 8 to 10 MPG

Clarice

1. Engine start up with slight rattle
2. Initial acceleration diesel rattle is easily heard in cabin
3. Engine power and pick up slower and noisier than Silver One
4. Kick Down comes in with lack of urgency and definate induction roar heard in Cabin
5. MPG down on Silver One by 8 to 10MPG.

This was conducted in exactly the same manner using exactly the same route in exactly the same weather conditions with both vehicles and already the difference in both of them is marked.

This is subjective or you used some sort of instrumentation?
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 16, 2018, 07:36:10 am
Anchorman,
 
What better way of unearthing a problem than letting the main driver of the vehicle experience the same model for comparison on the same route in the same weather using the same methods at the same locations for each?
Something we do dispassionately given what I used to do and what my wife still does, we use common sense and listening along with feel for the individual vehicle when making a comparison and what was used years ago when i was in the Motor Trade to diagnose faults with vehicles

More can be unearthed by subjective findings in these matters than instrumentation which as you know has been used by the Garage to nil effect thus far.

Both my wife and I drive Clarice, she more than me which is why I let my wife drive and I acted as passenger on each occasion,  over blowing a problem can and will blow up in your face when it is in print ( Libel Laws do exist  even for these forums ) so anything I write will be correct.

We are not looking for anything other than this rattling cold start engine problem to be dealt with by Mazda and soonest, test drive of the Demonstrator has already proved to both of us that ours DOES Rattle on start-up AND is down on power/MPG compared to the demonstrator.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on June 17, 2018, 01:42:12 am
Fair enough. Keep us informed.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 25, 2018, 07:20:01 am
Well we  have had the Silver Dream Machine for almost 2 Weeks now and every single start up from Cold has been video'd of it and Clarice.
What has it achieved ? well it has convinced my wife and myself that Clarice is a LEMON ( Engine Only )

The S.D.M starts each time without rattle, Is more responsive, gives better MPG and makes 'she who must be obeyed' very happy as it is what we wanted.

Clarice, her achilles heel is that engine, it is noisier, does rattle on start up, is inconsistent with the start/ warm up procedure and has lower MPG.

It is not often you get a 'Friday Nighter' but I am convinced as is my wife that Clarice falls into that category.

Before rants arrive on the forum it is solely to do with 'this engine' not the vehicle as a whole, we both love the visual of the outside design and the interior aesthetics which prove Mazda can and do make damn good vehicles.

THIS IS SOLELY AN ENGINE PROBLEM WHICH MAZDA ARE RETICENT TO ACCEPT AND RECTIFY TO MY SATISFACTION.
ESPECIALLY AS IT COST A LOT OF MONEY TO US.
END OFF !!
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on June 25, 2018, 09:41:29 am
Interesting, I hope you get this resolved. Has the garage done a back to back comparison of Clarice and SDM?
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 25, 2018, 10:56:22 am
No, but that's our next step, if we get no satisfaction then there are other options we have in store for dealing with this.
it will not lie with us having a Lemon on our hands for 3 years you can bet your life on that but can't give away too much at this time.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on June 30, 2018, 08:55:17 am
SDM has gone back following the 2 week trial, it proved to both my wife and me that Clarice has definately got something wrong with the engine which after all the video's of both vehicles making a cold start it is acknowledged that Clarice does have a noise not associated with SDM.
We have been promised a Senior Technician who will come to have a check over of Clarice, well if he/she puts it on the computer it will read 'No Faults'
To me No Surprise, I just hope the technician has X-ray vision so that he/she can peer into the interior of the engine as the fault is IN THERE not associated with the miriad of sensors.
The Front sensors which went ape twice on Clarice also did it in SDM at the same set of traffic Lights so it's not a sensor fault they are obviously picking up a stray light signal so at least that's that one sorted.
Will update when Technician has looked Clarice over.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on July 02, 2018, 05:04:56 am
SDM has gone back following the 2 week trial, it proved to both my wife and me that Clarice has definately got something wrong with the engine which after all the video's of both vehicles making a cold start it is acknowledged that Clarice does have a noise not associated with SDM.
We have been promised a Senior Technician who will come to have a check over of Clarice, well if he/she puts it on the computer it will read 'No Faults'
To me No Surprise, I just hope the technician has X-ray vision so that he/she can peer into the interior of the engine as the fault is IN THERE not associated with the miriad of sensors.
The Front sensors which went ape twice on Clarice also did it in SDM at the same set of traffic Lights so it's not a sensor fault they are obviously picking up a stray light signal so at least that's that one sorted.
Will update when Technician has looked Clarice over.

There’s one set of traffic lights in Manchester where my front parking sensors strike up every time when there isn’t a thing in sight. Strange.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on July 02, 2018, 06:04:13 pm
Hi Anchorman,
I added the part where our sensors went ape at the same set of lights down here on both CX-5's as I remembered you'd had a similar experience in Manchester, it must be the Traffic Lights give off a certain signal strength which is picked up by the sensors making them go up and down like a graphic equaliser.
At least we know there's nothing wrong with the sensors though as both reacted the same at the same lights so we can cross that one off the list.
Senior Technician arrives 17/07 so we'll see what explanation he/she comes up with.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on July 17, 2018, 04:57:55 pm
Well Clarice taken to Lodge yesterday so that the engineer could make assessment regarding the cold start clatter, requested that I was called when he arrived for discussion regarding this issue, after lengthy conversation and showing of further video captures I left the garage and engineer to carry out his investigation.

later called by Lodge to collect Clarice with no information given to staff at the garage. This I expected following an e-mail from Tracey Lines at Mazda UK who will be furnished the report in due course and who will contact me.

BOMBSHELL ALERT............!!!! whilst at Lodge I was informed that all diesel engined Mazda's will in future be utilising AD-BLU and known as  type 2.

Why a Bombshell ? Well to me, this signifies that after 5 Years of trying High End Technology to overcome exhaust emissions.

The disaster of an Engine we have in OUR CX-5 with it's erratic 800- 1800 RPM start-up and associated 3 cylinder and heavy banging all in the name of quicker EGR and Catalyst warm up have proved to be a major problem for owners of the Marque and all those other unfortunates all over the world who have issues with the Diesel Skyactiv and it's cold start procedure is something Mazda engineers with their collective cleverness have belatedly realised they cannot overcome and have had to follow the same route as all other manufacturers so that their engines have some degree of longevity which currently they  do not have.

So to all the Technologists at the cutting edge this has come back to bite Mazda right in the rear end.......again.

I shall be waiting for the outcome from Mazda UK and will take this further than them should it not be favourable.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on July 22, 2018, 12:08:00 pm
I don’t agree that it is a disaster.  There is an issue with cold starting but that doesn’t make it a disaster.  Its fine when it is running.  The 1800 rpm start up is explained in every handbook - it is there to speed up the temperature rise in the cat.  This silver one I have does knock (not bang) on start up but the red one which was written off didn’t so it isn’t common, there is something amiss.  The reason they are adding Adblue (which might be new to you but I’ve had the pdf’s for a while now) is because it is needed for the US market where some states have very tough emission laws.  It was always intended to be so, thats why you have the blank next to the fuel filler.

I don’t know why you are so hostile towards Mazda.  If its that bad, sell it and buy a Tiguan.  Good luck with that, after months of trying to sort out a dangerous flat spot on a brand new vehicle, my mate has just got his money back on his.

I’m interested in how you get on as mine goes in on the 1st for the same thing but they don’t all do it so it will get sorted.  Not everybody is as discontent as you are.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on July 24, 2018, 11:07:48 am
I'm inclined to agree with Anchorman, although I'm still on my first CX5 others on this forum and elsewhere have had two or three without the problems you've had with Clarice.

Not to diminish the hassle you've had at all, and that is opinion-forming. I just took two flights with Thomas Cook Airlines and never will again. So personal experience is very powerful.

However, the cold start 'problem' isn't a problem, it's a characteristic and explained in the manual and on this forum. The 3 cyl banging seems a genuine problem with your car - and you have my huge sympathies - but I haven't seen evidence that it is endemic.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on July 24, 2018, 11:14:20 am
I will answer in as few words as possible,
1. I have only ever owned one new vehicle in my 45 years of driving a Honda 400/4. It took me and my wife until 2003 before she bought a new Seat Toledo diesel as purchasing a house and having a horse used up most of our income so all our vehicles were cheap and very old, however as I was able to keep them going, I didn't mind as you make your choice in life and Nibs always wanted a horse so rather than wish for it we did it.
2. After our horse died, in 2011 her nibs bought a new Mazda MX-5 Sport Black, replaced it in 2013 with another MX-5 then in 2015 a Mazda3 coupe diesel.
3. We had always hankered after a Mazda CX-5 but found it didn't suit at the time so when the new updated series 2 came out we looked at the CX-5 again in auto form and with diesel, this was the biggest purchase of a vehicle we have ever made in 2018.
3. Having made a big purchase the vehicle was initially okay but 1170 miles in we had this awful banging and 3 cylinder start up which in all my years of driving I have never heard any engine make such a racket without shortly afterwards becoming history.
4. To me having shelled out a lot of money I have a vehicle which has a problem engine in the making as my wife drives it too and from work on the A34 dual carriageway 22 miles each direction. Not a road you'd want to break down on I can assure you as it is the heaviest used dual carriageway in the country.
4. Mazda having been dragging their feet and failing to sort this out properly merely skirting the edges until I contacted the CEO, to warrant rejecting a vehicle is not a straightforward issue either and their are routes that have to be followed for a positive outcome.
5. Ad Blu is a product I am well aware of as it has been used in the commercial field for years. Mazda now adopting it signifies to me that despite the claims the skyactive technology could reach Euro 6 standards on it's introduction without expensive additives it has turned out to be a problem for this latest engine with the erratic high speed start up that the engineers in Mazda have had to now abandon for tried and tested technology in the shape of Ad Blu which does the job without the engine being forced to have an overly complicated startup regime as it currently the case.
6. All the other CX-5's we have tried have NEVER displayed the noises our's makes on cold start which to me marks our's out as a Bad Engine which we have paid top money for and which Mazda have made no headway for us and I feel having paid much a feeling of discontent is a mild way of putting it.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on July 24, 2018, 10:29:58 pm
Listen, I get your frustration about the misfire at start up. Mine does it and while I’d rather it didn’t, it doesn’t bother me as much as it bothers you.  I worked on trucks for 12 years and I’ve trawled many troublesome engine faults. Mine is booked in to investigate.  The reason it doesn’t bother me is that as soon as it runs on 4 cylinders it is fine. You tested a second vehicle and thought it was better. I had another 2017 and it didn’t make this noise and although I can’t be sure, it might have run smoother like you thought. I think it might be air that accumulates overnight in the common rail and that’s why it clears so quickly.

Now regarding point 5, you’re way off mark on that. The CX-5 has been meeting Euro VI for several years. There is very little difference between the 2015 model and the 2018. The blank next to the filler cap was always intended for Adblue because it needs it to meet Californian regulations, it is not a devious change that you seem to think it is.

Anyway, I hope they sort it out for you, if my dealer sorts mine I’ll let you know straight away.  Don’t let it consume you, it doesn’t matter that much.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Deeps on July 25, 2018, 06:12:34 am

The CX-5 has been meeting Euro VI for several years.

As per the then existing EU testing parameters (which I believe is the argument that another manufacturer appears to be using) or actual in use on the road conditions?
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on July 25, 2018, 08:48:28 am

The CX-5 has been meeting Euro VI for several years.

As per the then existing EU testing parameters (which I believe is the argument that another manufacturer appears to be using) or actual in use on the road conditions?

Yes, the existing parameters.  You think they’ve been cheating like VW?
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on July 25, 2018, 09:51:41 am
My last missive was to let you know that I have had cars and vans of all denominations and none of them ever let me down despite their age or condition nor did they have any mechanical clatter that would suggest failure of a major component in all my 45 years of driving experience coupled with 13 years of Motor Trade Technician experience

The CX-5 Skyactiv engine to me is an experiment in it's latest guise that has been redesigned inside and which has failed to live up to expectations hence why Mazda are shortly bringing in Ad Blu to overcome the current startup which involves complicated valve technology and high revving to overcome the lowering of the compression ratio on cold start. Mazda claims that the Skyactiv engine has exceeded Euro 6 emissions since it's inception without any additional costly emissions control. So why now are they using Ad Blu as other makers have been doing for years ? To me it signify's a flawed engine start up Mazda are keen to put behind them and nothing else.

Any engine which when brand new splutters into life on 3 not 4 cylinders and an accompanying racket which to me meant imminent mechanical failure is not a good sign of any longevity and not what I have paid good money for, simple as.

Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on July 25, 2018, 11:20:59 am
My last missive was to let you know that I have had cars and vans of all denominations and none of them ever let me down despite their age or condition nor did they have any mechanical clatter that would suggest failure of a major component in all my 45 years of driving experience coupled with 13 years of Motor Trade Technician experience

The CX-5 Skyactiv engine to me is an experiment in it's latest guise that has been redesigned inside and which has failed to live up to expectations hence why Mazda are shortly bringing in Ad Blu to overcome the current startup which involves complicated valve technology and high revving to overcome the lowering of the compression ratio on cold start. Mazda claims that the Skyactiv engine has exceeded Euro 6 emissions since it's inception without any additional costly emissions control. So why now are they using Ad Blu as other makers have been doing for years ? To me it signify's a flawed engine start up Mazda are keen to put behind them and nothing else.

Any engine which when brand new splutters into life on 3 not 4 cylinders and an accompanying racket which to me meant imminent mechanical failure is not a good sign of any longevity and not what I have paid good money for, simple as.

I don’t know where you think the Adblue goes but it is injected into the exhaust - nowhere near the engine and the new version will still rev at 1800rpm when cold.  I’ll add a couple of pdf’s so you can have a read.  The knocking wouldn’t happen if it didn’t misfire and if it were a serious impending issue it wouldn’t run perfectly after start up.  I’m not trying to dismiss everything you say but if they can’t stop it you’re going to become very unhappy and I don’t think there’s any need.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on July 25, 2018, 04:36:15 pm
Anchorman.
i know how and where Ad Blu is used to effect the reduction of Nox to Nitrogen and water.

The Skyactiv engine in our Mazda3 never did this high revving in the 3 years we owned it.

When the CX-5 began this terrible knocking and banging at 1170 miles I was informed by Mazda UK that the entire interior of the engine had been redesigned from the one in the Mazda3, the redesigned engine now has this high revving start up which I do understand as to the requirements of it as the compression ratio has been reduced from 16 to 14 to 1 with one exhaust valve remaining slightly open allowing hot gasses to filter into the EGR and Catalyst for a quicker warm up.

THIS I KNOW AND UNDERSTAND !

What irks me is that Mazda will not take responsibility for the engine in MY CX-5 being faulty and failing to do anything positive about it, I am still waiting on the report by the Senior Technician to  Tracey Lines at Mazda UK, if nothing was found wrong how come it takes a week to let me know, my intuition is that there is something wrong with it which is the reason for this blog.
I don't trust anyone over problematic vehicles due to my 28 years of dealing with people who seldom told me the truth.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on July 25, 2018, 05:46:48 pm
Just got off the phone with Tracey Lines of Mazda UK, the engineers report yielded no faults with Clarice, am I surprised ? not really as who is going to state that a vehicle made by the company you work for is problematic.There will be no fix for our CX-5 engine so we'll get rid off as soon as possible

So as far as I am concerned this will be the last ever Mazda we will ever purchase and I will advise anyone who asks me about the marque to think very carefully before doing so as unless it fails completely, falls off of or disintegrates Mazda's warranty is worth absolutely JACK. they will do precisely nothing about it, wonderful way to deal with long standing customers in this day and age.

So much for Japanese integrity and workmanship, jinba itia and all the other slogans they proffer.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on July 25, 2018, 11:08:47 pm
Well to be honest I thought that might happen and it’s probably not been helped by your stubborn attitude. Your engine won’t fall to bits as a result of this start up noise although I agree it can be disconcerting when it does it badly.

If you behave the same with them as you do on here, they’ll probably be glad to see the back of you. Mine is off to RRG Stockport. I don’t really want it pulling to bits if it’s more than just air getting in.  I don’t really see it as my last car and in another 18 months or so I’ll change it for the later model.  I’ll let you know if they clear it though.

Good luck with whatever you buy buddy. I hope you get something you’re really pleased with.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Deeps on July 26, 2018, 07:53:22 am
Just got off the phone with Tracey Lines of Mazda UK, the engineers report yielded no faults with Clarice, am I surprised ? not really as who is going to state that a vehicle made by the company you work for is problematic.

I've been following this thread with great interest and see no need to make any judgemental comment at this time,  either positive or negative. What I have found surprising though is that you haven't sought an independent engineers report from a well respected and trusted company with which to pursue the matter further through legal channels. You come across as being absolutely convinced that there exists a technical defect (possibly a design concept defect to boot) and without an intermediary i.e. an independent report I can't see you making further progress in this matter.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on July 26, 2018, 09:41:03 am
I would have thought an independent engineer report would be a smart move. I think with respect you might also benefit from focusing on your specific legitimate complaint about the 3 cylinder thing; the other points you make are muddying the water.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on July 26, 2018, 07:34:54 pm
Gentlemen I will answer as follows:-
Anchorman,

The point I was making and you did not grasp was that It took me years to get to the point where we could afford a new car and now we have the most expensive one we have purchased, because of the lousy start up from cold it SOMETIMES displays and Mazda UK have dragged their feet over and finally have denied any responsibility over,  has tarnished our enjoyment beyond compare and we have paid much money for a vehicle which as far as I am concerned does not measure up. If that makes me Stubborn then yes you are right I am, my own view is that Motor Manufacturers fail to give creedence to those of us who do know the workings of engines and will always deny responsibility leaving me in this case to carry the can for their failings

Deeps and TWAbrigs,

An independent engineer report would be based on what he/she found at the time of making their visual check, any strip down without Mazda approval would invalidate any warranty on the vehicle and i would be liable for costs incurred. The engineer would not be accountable for the Video's i have captured and could not use them in any report furnished to me or the Ombudsman as to the Engine start up from cold.
Because the nature of this is so erratic it would be a crap shoot as to whether it happened when he/she viewed the vehicle and if on the day it did not make the erratic and noisy 3 cylinder start then I would have wasted my money would I not.

I do not make complaints lightly, it takes a lot for me to get to the point where action needs to be taken, in the right way, not making mistakes in adhering to codes and practises that will allow me to take this further.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on July 26, 2018, 10:17:43 pm
Understood. I think people participating in this thread are generally on your side; it sounds like you have various plans in hand to pursue this and I wish you the very best. It does sound like you have been sold a lemon. Like you, my current car is the newest and most expensive I've ever owned and it would be deeply disappointing if it seemed to be a pig in a poke so to speak.

Apologies for mixing my metaphors..!
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on July 27, 2018, 07:31:08 am
If it only sometimes does it, it’s not an impending certain mechanical failure. I don’t believe it’s a lemon either, it just needs sorting out but when you go in there laying the law down and insisting you know more than they do, they won’t be in a hurry to keep you around. It still starts, it runs nice when it is started, stop worrying.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: YX1109 on July 27, 2018, 11:08:10 am
Problems with cars of all types go on, you buy one from a manufacturer and it's a good one, no bother
does what it says on the tin etc.Not related to Mazda, but I had one car that was superb for 4 and a half years and 100 k with no problems. So when I had chance, I bought the next generation car from the same source.
It was a pig, problems from day one all through warranty and at 5 and a half year old 60 k on the clock
I gave in and got rid before it cost me more than it already had.It was the most expensive car I ever bought.
To me in my opinion  cars are a bit of a lottery, you get a good one and maybe next time, a good one, or the odd rouge. Puts you off that manufacturer for a long time. Just a thought on a ongoing problem we all face.
Will the next one be as good as the last or a bitter disappointment .??After all we are spending a lot of money
probably second largest purchase ,in money terms, that we will make.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on August 01, 2018, 08:05:34 am
Anchorman,

YX1109 gets it right on the nail.

I will put it to you this way:-
Would you buy a new house with one window different to all the rest ? I bet you would not and would complain to have the errant fixture put to rights.
This CX5 is no different to that, it has a fault , I want it put right simple as.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on August 04, 2018, 06:42:11 pm
Anchorman,

YX1109 gets it right on the nail.

I will put it to you this way:-
Would you buy a new house with one window different to all the rest ? I bet you would not and would complain to have the errant fixture put to rights.
This CX5 is no different to that, it has a fault , I want it put right simple as.

In your analogy, having one window different to the rest would have the house fall down.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: CX-Fiver on August 05, 2018, 09:51:32 am
Anchorman - succinctly put!

If Clarice feels "YX1109 gets it right on the nail" - and I think he/she does - how does that view sit with "as we all know Mazda have been past masters in the art of duff engines ( Rotary being a prime example )"? Apart from the misuse of the word "we" - I know nothing of the sort - they're completely opposing positions.

I still maintain that Clarice's issue needs to be sorted by the dealer but to write off all of Mazda's engine output is way over the top. The rotary engine did indeed burn a lot of oil and wear out rotor tips but everyone who bought one knew that up front - it was a great engine in a lot of respects and you pays your money and takes your choice. All Mazda's other engines have been excellent/reliable (in my opinion) and which other manufacturer produces 100% perfect engines with no recorded faults?

Finally, do you member Jimmy Hill's Sunday Supplement? I stopped watching it because every time a respected journalist had an opposing view, they were shouted down because Jimmy always pulled the "As a former player, manager and chairman...….." line. Remind you of anyone?
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on August 06, 2018, 10:11:17 am
Anchorman... Really ?

CX-Fiver... The problem is Mazda itself not the dealer, he is franchised and therefore if he does not adhere to what Mazda says he can do or not, He then becomes liable NOT Mazda for any future repairs. Clever way of sidestepping responsibility and hemming in the dealer.

Despite plenty of video evidence showing 3 cylinder start-ups which were forwarded to them ( Mazda UK) and the engineer when I saw him they conclude there is no fault when clearly there is. However as soon as I can this one is gone and no more Mazda's for me

'Do one thing right you tell one other, do one thing wrong you tell one hundred'

Rotary engines back in the 1970's the seals on the edges of the rotors were not the problem, the water jacket seals between the rotor housings and end caps were because of the dissimilar metals used, they twisted the seals under hot and cold conditions causing failure and evacuation of coolant. I had to strip plenty of rotary's in the day to fix this fault which occurred with regularity around 20,000 miles and on occasions less. If you think that makes it a good engine I don't, for me longevity is key and I don't see the Skyactiv diesel with it's complicated cold start set up being long lived in it's present form.

Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on August 06, 2018, 03:12:51 pm
= I don't see the Skyactiv diesel with it's complicated cold start set up being long lived in it's present form.



At the risk of setting another hare running, I couldn't let this comment go really...the CX5 has been around for what 6 years now? The oil sump dump problem is well known (I have experienced it), but apparently now resolved through careful regen management by the driver, a software update and (comically) moving the X on the dipstick. And possibly through evolution of the engine in the later models (mine is 2013 so I haven't really kept up with the next gen).

I am not aware of any failures linked to the cold start / high revs which is planned characteristic of the engine.

So in terms of longevity it depends on how many years you want to wait to say the skyactiv diesel is sound or unsound, but so far so good as far as I know.

As before, I do acknowledge the problems you are having but they are hardly endemic.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on August 10, 2018, 08:18:47 pm
TWAbrigs,

In answer to your question I put it this way, I personally run a 23 year old Vauxhall Astra Hatchback with a 1,7 ISUZU Turbo diesel which has covered 185,000 miles with all the original running gear and absolutely love the old bus because she starts up without any rattles knocks or 3 cylinder rumbles as does our CX-5, gives me 50=55 mpg as well as being comfortable to ride in, I have complete confidence that wherever I take her she will get there and get back whatever the detractors of Vauxhall have to say I have had many and have covered high mileages in all of them without any problems.

Will the CX-5 we have compete with that I think.. NO! fully believe it will not.

Although the vehicle is one of the very best I have driven and sat in I am afraid this particular one is a lemon in respect of the lousy engine which still starts with bangs and rattles NO modern vehicle should have.

THIS is my ONLY contention, which Mazda refuse to deal with because it comes under the 'TOO DIFFICULT TO DO' Banner
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: CX-Fiver on August 10, 2018, 09:24:51 pm
Clarice

You say "Although the vehicle is one of the very best I have driven and sat in I am afraid this particular one is a lemon in respect of the lousy engine which still starts with bangs and rattles NO modern vehicle should have.

THIS is my ONLY contention, which Mazda refuse to deal with because it comes under the 'TOO DIFFICULT TO DO' Banner".

Halle-flippin-lujah!!! I can't (and won't) speak for anyone else who's following your genuinely and obviously painful experience - it's not on and you have my sympathy. What you say above is a far more rounded, considered and even take on what's happened. I can understand your frustration leading to anger but coming onto a Mazda forum - used, by and large, by Mazda fans - and slagging off everything they've ever done, isn't going to foster huge support. That said, you really have had a lot of sympathy from many and quite right too.

I hope you exchange Clarice soon and replace it with an entirely perfect motor asap. If you don't return to Mazda ever again then fair enough - I think I'd be probably be of the same mind. However, as I've said before - and you've repeated - I've had several faultless Mazdas, so I'll keep buying them. It's a bloody shame that these things occasionally happen and it was you in this instance.

Good luck with your replacement motor - I hope it's spot on. And not German.  ;)

Cheers
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on August 11, 2018, 01:58:06 pm
CX-Fiver,

I have NOT slagged off everything Mazda have done but pointed out that certain of their engines have not stood the test of time, Rotary's in the 1970's being one of them and that is from personal experience. Have YOU ever stripped down a Rotary engine  because it has knackered it's seals in 20,000 miles or less ?. It led to Mazda almost going bankrupt when the Oil Crisis hit and they required a bailout from FORD to stave off Bankruptcy which was not the first time the company have faced that situation.

 My estimation is NO. but at least back then Mazda did honour it's warranty and dealt with the problem by replacement of the parts which were found to be defective, unlike today where they will NOT deal with the defective engine in our CX-5 for which we have paid a large amount of money and have no satisfaction with this particular part... THE ENGINE which I could not have made plain enough from the start..

No matter what anyone else states or thinks on this forum  WE are the one's who do have this lemon, which Mazda, despite ALL the evidence we have provided points to a problem that exists have failed to deal with it to OUR satisfaction and in that vein makes me consider that all Mazda want is your money and to hell with you if their is a problem with their product.

Having been in the Motor Trade, I am very sceptical about ANY of the Manufacturers ( Not just Mazda, except that a person who has been in the Motor Trade business longer than me and dealt with all the Major producers of vehicles indicated that under warranty Mazda are one of the worst to deal with ) lead me to start this thread. If this upsets you or anyone else that I choose this forum to make my annoyance felt then as far as I am concerned ....TOUGH.

I felt that as soon as this engine problem occurred it would NOT be dealt with efficiently or expediently by Mazda and at least I would be able to provide evidence that I was not being dealt with correctly as per agreement, should I need to take this farther which i ultimately will then i am perfectly happy to do so. i will not let ANY person or Company kick me in the teeth and accept it especially in this day and age.

I understand that many Mazda CX-5 owners are perfectly happy with their vehicles as they are starting up from cold without any of the 3 cylinder and heavy knocking WE experience, My angst is with Mazda for failure to do ANYTHING about OUR vehicle which does exhibit this trait for which we paid a large amount of money. If you Anchorman or anyone else who post on this forum cannot understand that, and are unhappy with me for putting this into typescript, consider that when i go before any Ombudsman I have evidence of the poor experience i have had at the Hands of Mazda as a Company who I consider have failed me as a customer from the moment this problem raised it's head.

If there was no problem I would have been praising the CX-5 ( which I have )and Mazda for ti's product, it is not the first vehicle from this company that I have purchased ( 5 in total ) but it is the most expensive AND the most problematic we have had to endure, it is not on in this day and age so as far as I am concerned the issue NEEDS to be confronted and dealt with properly.

If Mazda wish to push this to the Motor Ombudsman then I am only too happy to take it that far such is my dissatisfaction with this particular CX-5 Engine problem which they fail to acknowledge despite ALL the evidence to the contrary has made me dig my heels in.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: CX-Fiver on August 12, 2018, 11:49:47 am
Wow, just wow.

I can't even bothered to point out the numerous contradictions between what you say in your shouty rant and your previous diatribes. Wow....
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on August 13, 2018, 09:34:06 am
I'm done here.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on August 20, 2018, 10:03:45 am
So am I , Clarice will be gone in the next month that's for sure cannot say too much at this time butwill update later.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on August 20, 2018, 10:26:06 am
I'm done here.
What Contradictions ?
My gripe has been with THIS engine and nothing else it has been the focal point I have made and consistently done so throughout this posting.

The fact that I have past experience in the Motor Trade and you have not ( I do look at other postings on the site by you and others ) puts me in a position whereby I can and do question what is going on.

Should that upset you or anyone else on this CX-5 forum well that is a problem for you and not me.

I have never ranted or shouted about any problem that has come my way but highlighted what has caused me annoyance and nothing else, the written word has no verifiable emphasis which the spoken word has when you are face to face with someone.

As you do not know me personally I would say just this, meet me wherever you want and you will find out that I am rational and will see anything from numerous angles, i am forthright which may make me seem aggressive, this is not me .

As far as I am concerned everyone has their point of view and is entitled to do so, if it is the polar opposite to your own it does not make me a bad person just someone who is prepared to defend what that say and do.

In that vein I am that person
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on August 20, 2018, 10:27:20 am
Apologies TWA this last post was for CX-Fiver
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on September 16, 2018, 04:26:43 pm
Clarice will be gone by Tuesday of next week, Goodbye and good riddance.

What is the replacement ? Well surprise. surprise. another Mazda CX-5. This time with the Ad-Blu as an extra Why you may ask have we gone for exactly the same model in all aspects except for the ad blu.

Well Ladies and Gentlemen it is down to Floyd at Lodge Garage. Kingswood, Aylesbury and very little to do with Mazda UK, although Mazda have helped to a small degree, it is Floyd at Lodge who I suspect has taken somewhat of a hit over this vehicle that we have carried on with the marque and is prepared to take this troublesome CX5 Back.

There are those of you out there in Mazdaworld who have looked on and wondered about the outcome, i can say that I love the new CX-5 and have always done so, it is merely the cold start rattle which has made me cold towards the vehicle  and nothing more.

Hopefully this new CX-5 will be a much better bet than Clarice and will restore my faith in Mazda as a maker of vehicles and i will continue to make them a vehicle of choice in the future but if and only if Mazda make reparations towards Floyd at Lodge for his faith in us as customers.

To all those of you who have CX5's and are happy with them long may this continue. i will be happy to admire the vehicle as long as it carries on to be trouble free. Any of you who have been upset by my viewpoints will have to live with that |as I make no apologies for my viewpoints
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Jonno21 on September 17, 2018, 09:43:38 am
It will be interesting to hear your experiences relating to Adblue as I will be collecting my new CX5 mid October which will also be using Adblue. Unfortunately it is yet another thing to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on September 17, 2018, 01:21:26 pm
I know that there are many on this site who believe i have gone overboard regarding Clarice being such a nightmare but only in respect of the cold start banging and clanging of the engine. However my wife and I have bitten the bullet ONLY because Floyd at Lodge Garage. Kingswood, Aylesbury has made it a consideration as long standing customers. I fully respect him for that, Mazda UK have i think begrudgingly made a token gesture over this whole issue.
We have been owners of 5 Mazda's in total and only Clarice has proved to be problematic all the others have been faultless. i will of course seek to prove that the following CX-5 is up to scratch and will report any positive/negative aspects as they occur.
 The CX-5 is a vehicle that we both love for it's build quality and the interior layout which I have nothing but praise. The addition of ad blu i do find surprising given that Mazda have claimed the Skyactiv engineering has surpassed the euro emissions 6 directive since it's inception of 2013.
That said, i will see how our latest Mazda CX-5 performs before I place any further information either good or bad on this site. I will not lie but will give a true and accurate account of how things are regarding this latest Mazda model.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on September 17, 2018, 02:52:13 pm
Best of luck with it, honestly

 :)
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: dunhill1984 on September 17, 2018, 06:25:35 pm
will you now change your tag name to the new name of your next car or will you call it Clarise 2
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on September 18, 2018, 09:07:19 am
Best of luck with it, honestly
Thanks TWA :)

Dunhill

Guess what ? -----NO.

The new CX-5 has a definate name change as we don't want a reminder of the past hassle.

Envious of your place of living as I know it well and have visited many times in the past and still do,  being from Gloucestershire originally but the other side of the Severn I always refer to it as Gods' County.

I am sure others on the forum will of course refer to their own Home County in the same vein as I do mine.


Edit :  Sorted out your quotes for you  :)
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Deeps on September 18, 2018, 03:04:25 pm


being from Gloucestershire originally but the other side of the Severn I always refer to it as Gods' County.



And there was me thinking that you were an educated person.  ;) Ask any true English person where God's country is and they will tell you 'Yorkshire'. Oh, and I'm originally from that other place defined by a red rose so shouldn't really be admitting to acknowledging that Yorkshire even exists LOL.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: twabrigs on September 18, 2018, 10:41:42 pm
Sorry guys, it's well documented that God when He walked the Earth resided north of the border.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on September 19, 2018, 11:15:14 am
Sorry guys, it's well documented that God when He walked the Earth resided north of the border.

I were well edukated, Skool had 'Approved' on the gate. It wuz hard to get over it cos the lectric stung being 5000 volt an' the barbed wire riped yer breeches.

Were's Yorkshire ?

an' watts North of the Border is that Berminham ?  :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Clarice on September 20, 2018, 07:31:35 pm
Well Clarice has now gone and been replaced with Gee, It is early days and not yet enough time to see whether we have turned up trumps or not. Suffice top say that we will let the club members know how thing progress as time goes on.
I will update as time goes by either good or bad, however our thanks go to Floyd and his staff at Lodge Garage, Kingswood. Aylesbury for assisting us in making this change when it would have been all to easy to just cast us adrift and have to put up with absolute aggravation.
So, to all of you out there in Mazda world there are still some proprietors who are prepared to look after their customers even though the manufacturers of the marque fail to meet the grade when it comes down to it.
Again Thank you Floyd and the team at LODGE GARAGE, KINGSWOOD. AYLESBURY.
Title: Re: My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine
Post by: Anchorman on September 20, 2018, 08:16:01 pm
I’m an atheist so where does that leave us!  I only know that whoever designed Buxton had Inuit ancestors.