Author Topic: Complete engine failure - CX-5 SE-L Nav D 4x4 2.2 diesel  (Read 4815 times)

Offline JBW

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Complete engine failure - CX-5 SE-L Nav D 4x4 2.2 diesel
« on: February 10, 2017, 11:40:52 am »
The engine suffered a complete and catastrophic failure whilst I was travelling at around 65mph on a dual carriage way. There was no indication of any problem until there the power suddenly reduced the engine spluttered before a complete loss of power. The vehicle was registered in September 2013 which could mean that it is prone to some of the issues detailed in this forum. It has just 33k on the clock and has always been serviced by Mazda.My local Mazda dealership has now had the car for two weeks are have been trying to establish the cause of the problem(s). So far they believe that the DPF and the turbocharger have failed but suspect there are are other problems.  They are working under the direction of Mazda because, whilst the car is just outside the warranty period, the engine clearly should not have failed so dramatically and the dealership is hoping that Mazda will pick most the costs as "goodwill". Understandably, I am hoping that they will pay for all the costs.
I would be interested to know whether anyone else has had such a major failure, the likely cause and what contribution Mazda made to the repair costs. Thanks

Offline BigAl

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Re: Complete engine failure - CX-5 SE-L Nav D 4x4 2.2 diesel
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 02:07:11 pm »
Bad news when that happens...

Mine (2012 175 sport manual) did it under the warranty period, with considerably more miles on than that. Shed material from improperly hardened camshafts blocking the turbo oil feed passages. New turbo, new camshafts and followers and a full flush of the system was the outcome. Mazda paid for it all with no issues as far as I know (dealer never actually said).

I have heard of some people having an uphill struggle with this issue, though. Just don't let them tell you that they've never heard of it before, its a well documented issue!

Alan

Offline JBW

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Re: Complete engine failure - CX-5 SE-L Nav D 4x4 2.2 diesel
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2017, 05:27:40 pm »
Alan, thanks for the information about your experience. Yes, I am concerned that Mazda may claim this is a unique event ( which obviously isn't the case ) but hopefully they will agree to do the work necessary to restore the engine to what would be expected on a car just over three years old with just 33k on the clock.
Did your car behave well after the repair and the complete engine flush? Brendan

Offline BigAl

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Re: Complete engine failure - CX-5 SE-L Nav D 4x4 2.2 diesel
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 12:46:59 pm »
Yes, all the work was done by the dealer (took a while as they were still having an issue with parts availability). There were no further engine issues and I ran the car to about 63k miles before changing it for another (same model) in Sept 2015. No engine issue with my current one (crosses fingers...)

Alan

Offline JBW

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Re: Complete engine failure - CX-5 SE-L Nav D 4x4 2.2 diesel
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2017, 04:51:44 pm »
Thanks Alan, that reassuring. Mazda are still, after over two weeks, looking into the problems and have raised it with "Customer Care" but they haven't made the promised phone call. It is all rather frustrating. Brendan

Offline JBW

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Who is responsible Mazda or the Dealer
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2017, 03:56:12 pm »
Three and a half weeks ago, the engine in my CX-5 suffered a catastrophic failure  and I haven't even had an offer of repair or a quotation. The vehicle is only 4 months outside warranty and was purchased from a Mazda dealer when just a few months old. There are only 33,000 miles on the clock. It would appear that Mazda's Technical Department is allowed up to a week to answer each query which has accounted for much of the delay in starting the repairs. Today I was told that the turbocharger, battery, DPF and various other parts had failed and that the inter-cooler will need an overall. The dealer won't send me a copy of their report until they have spoken with Mazda.
Does anyone know if I am correct that the dealer ( rather than Mazda ) is responsible for the repair costs because the car was bought second hand and, clearly, a properly maintained engine should not fail so dramatically with so few miles on the clock at just over 3 years old. It would appear that it can be claimed that a product is "not fit for purpose" for up to six years from new. Any guidance or details of other people's experience is welcome. Thanks.
   

Offline Deeps

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Re: Who is responsible Mazda or the Dealer
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2017, 05:11:45 pm »
Hi, living in Germany I'm not really qualified to state concrete facts as applies to either UK law or the Mazda warranty. However, to indicate that your post isn't being ignored I'll offer you my own personal opinion and leave it to others to contradict anything that I might say or, alternatively, offer their own and perhaps more qualified opinion.

Looking at the Mazda UK website under the tab 'Warranty' https://www.mazda.co.uk/buying-owning/buying/warranty/ it quite clearly states that they offer a 3-year manufacturers warranty. Please note - manufacturers warranty - and not dealer. This warranty can be extended with three levels being available but in my opinion this warranty is offered using independent and specialist insurance companies with items covered under the extended warranty being very much less than the initial manufacturers warranty. Either way, it would seem from your posting that this extended option was not chosen by the previous owner and, therefore, even if it was transferable to subsequent owners (as is the initial manufacturers warranty) neither the initial manufacturers warranty, and thus a claim against the manufacturer, or the extended warranty, and thus a claim against an insurance company are options in your case.

In my opinion, any reputable dealership - and it may even be covered by legislation in the UK under consumer laws - should/has to provide a limited time guarantee on any vehicle sold. If this is the case, and I would imagine that it is, then any claim that your submit has to be made against the seller. If they seek advise or an opinion from the manufacturer then that of course is up to them but in practical terms has got absolutely nothing to do with you. For example, the dealer may say that repair costs amount to X pounds but due to the age of the vehicle and it's full service history, the necessary repairs should not be required and that the manufacturer should really be paying a portion of it. As I said though, any dealings between the seller and the manufacturer outside of the vehicles manufacturers warranty period have got nothing to do with you.

You do not say exactly when the vehicle was purchased as of course if this was more than 6 months past and the dealer only offered a 6 months used vehicle warranty then your case is very much weakened I would say. Either way, with the information that you have provided and with the likely costs involved I would immediately contact a solicitor if only with the view to seeking advice and if it seems that your case against the seller is reasonable then ask the solicitors to handle the case on your behalf. Not only will the know the correct way to proceed applying the due amount of pressure on the seller, but also they will be able to claim costs - including extra costs incurred by you - for the work done.
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Offline Willpower

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Re: Who is responsible Mazda or the Dealer
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2017, 10:45:05 pm »
Totally agree with Deeps comments. One thing immediately springs to mind that your car being a 2013 model was/is quite likely to have been caught up in the debacle caused by the non hardening of the cam heads see here 

http://mazdacx5forums.co.uk/index.php?topic=552.msg4057#msg4057

There are other relevant postings. Please do a search from the HOME page and use the keyword  HARDENED

If these postings and the events surrounding them relate to your situation, then I would suggest that both Mazda AND the dealership are aware of the problem and have probably dealt with similar circumstances before.   Your situation and the failures you have are symptomatic of the failed cam head problem.
So in addition to Deeps comments above I would suggest that you have a serious talk with the dealer and get them to interrogate the history of the car to see if any action has ever been take regarding the camshaft. Armed with the knowledge gained here, plus perhaps some more research on your part, you could probably gain a bit more respect from the dealer.
This might lead to an improvement in your circumstances.

Also I must say that the symptoms may well also apply to a complete DPF failure, which is a whole different story.   What is critical here is, just how long have you had the car. Are you the first or a subsequent owner ?    Unfortunately if it turns out that the camshaft is not to blame and that the problem was associated with a failed DPF regeneration, and allied problems. Then it becomes more a case of the owners responsibility.

Hope this might help you to get to the bottom of the problem.

I answered this in response to your new title and didn't immediately connect it with your previous postings. So now I have merged your two topics together so that we might get a better picture of the problem

Good luck.

Offline JBW

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Re: Complete engine failure - CX-5 SE-L Nav D 4x4 2.2 diesel
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2017, 10:48:49 am »
Thank you very much for the interesting responses. I have checked and my car's VIN number is in the range of the known cam shaft issue. It is worrying that the cam shaft failure is classed as a "known issue" when I and others have experienced instant engine failure. It is chance whether such a serious problem occurs at a point where the driver can get to safety or at some dangerous place, such as the outer lane of a wide motorway.

I checked on the DVSA site and couldn't find any recall against the CX-5.

I have used Mazda's Facebook pages to move things along but would welcome any links to other social media sites.

Offline FireDiamondUK

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Re: Complete engine failure - CX-5 SE-L Nav D 4x4 2.2 diesel
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2017, 10:52:34 am »
I think the key thing is when did you purchase the car from the Mazda dealer? They have a Statutory obligation to offer a 3 month warranty i believe so if within this then the dealer should be picking up the bill or you have the right to hand the car back.

Something else to consider is, presumably if you bought it from a Mazda main dealer then you should have been offered an extended warranty. This may have an impact as if you were offered this and declined it, then Mazda have grounds to refuse any help as you were offered the warranty and chose to reject it knowing that you would not be covered in this situation...

Also as Willpower states, if it is nothing to do with the Cam Shaft, and is rather a DPF issue, i think that it depends on why the DPF failed and how you reacted to this. If, the DPF failed, did not warn you and then caused subsequent damage to the engine etc... then that's fair enough. However if the DPF light displayed on the dash to say there was a problem and you continued to drive it then its no fault of Mazda's that subsequent damage occurred. Now i'm sure you will swear blind that there was no such light regardless as you would be stupid to admit it anyway, however Mazda will more than likely be able to prove if the light was on or not through vehicle diagnostics.

As a bit of background, i used to work in a Jaguar dealer and came across these sorts of disputes regularly so can see the argument from all 3 sides...

Offline Deeps

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Re: Complete engine failure - CX-5 SE-L Nav D 4x4 2.2 diesel
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2017, 12:53:57 pm »


I have used Mazda's Facebook pages to move things along but would welcome any links to other social media sites.

I can understand your frustration and considerable irritation that things are not progressing at the speed that you would wish and also are entitled too. However, posting things on Facebook and/or other social media sites isn't really going to push things along at a greater speed. I've said it before but it's worth repeating again - if you are hitting a stumbling block with the seller then you should really be getting the big guns out and that is by seeking legal representation.
We on the forum are only getting to hear one side of the case - yours - and like with all cases there are always two sides and I feel that there are perhaps a few issues to this that are not being fully disclosed.
It is my contention that you have received plenty of good advice on this forum with even links being provided that you can/have followed in support of your case. In short, it leaves me somewhat baffled as to why, you would choose to post on social media rather than seek immediate legal assistance. It might slso be worth reading this article:- http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 01:03:38 pm by Deeps »
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Offline FireDiamondUK

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Re: Complete engine failure - CX-5 SE-L Nav D 4x4 2.2 diesel
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2017, 10:01:52 am »


I have used Mazda's Facebook pages to move things along but would welcome any links to other social media sites.

I can understand your frustration and considerable irritation that things are not progressing at the speed that you would wish and also are entitled too. However, posting things on Facebook and/or other social media sites isn't really going to push things along at a greater speed. I've said it before but it's worth repeating again - if you are hitting a stumbling block with the seller then you should really be getting the big guns out and that is by seeking legal representation.
We on the forum are only getting to hear one side of the case - yours - and like with all cases there are always two sides and I feel that there are perhaps a few issues to this that are not being fully disclosed.
It is my contention that you have received plenty of good advice on this forum with even links being provided that you can/have followed in support of your case. In short, it leaves me somewhat baffled as to why, you would choose to post on social media rather than seek immediate legal assistance. It might slso be worth reading this article:- http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

Further to this, you need Mazda on your side so slagging them off on Fb isnt the way to make them feel generous towards you, it is only going to piss them off and make them less likely to want to help you... I also think that seeking legal advice at this stage may also make them stand their ground. Keep calling them, be polite but insistent that you need them to make a decision as you are without a car at the moment. Ask them if they will provide a car possibly for you to use while they decide to help you out. At the end of the day you are talking to humans and its the humans within Mazda who will make the decision. Being an arse about things or threatening them with legal action at this stage will just get their backs up. However if the decision does not go your way i would certainly be talking to citizens advice and thinking about legal help then...

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Re: Complete engine failure - CX-5 SE-L Nav D 4x4 2.2 diesel
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2017, 10:01:52 am »