My Brand New Three Cylinder thrashing machine

[Clarice]

Well, Oil changed, sump removed and photographs taken. Quite what it will prove other than the oil was black ( expected as diesels chew oil up anyway ) is a mystery to me. Given the banging came from the lower extremities of the engine I would have thought that a removal of the oil pump and big end /main bearing cap removal and inspection would have been made at the same time just to verify or disprove any lower end problems.
But No !!
To clarify this however, Mazda UK may have authorised but Lodge Garage footed the bill for the oil and sump removal NOT Mazda, so a big Plus for Lodge Garage and NIL points for Mazda from me, to treat a franchised dealer of your product in this way is to me a sign that Mazda as a company just do not worry about losing custom which given in the 1970's they were almost bankrupt and were effectively bailed out by FORD they are in need of an immediate attitude adjustment not only to their customers but to their dealers as well.
Unless the oil is scientifically checked for contaminants be they diesel or metallic then this really proves nothing at all other than I have had an early oil change on Clarice

[Anchorman]

Sorry, I meant to follow your thread but I really struggle to find stuf on this forum. Having the sump off is exactly the kind of thing I don’t want them to do. I worked on diesels for years and this knock at start up isn’t the kind of mechanical failure that looking at the crank would sort. If it was, it wouldn’t run so smoothly after a few seconds. I did a bit of playing round and at some stage I will check the resistance of the glow plug because one thing I noticed is that if you turn the ignition on without starting it (all the lights on but foot away from the brake) you’ll see the glow plug light for the briefest second just above the left gauges. However, the glow plugs go on working for several minutes to aid cold combustion. If you wait a good 30 seconds and try again, see if it starts any better. Mine seems to. I suspect we have a glow plug issue.

[Clarice]

Hi Anchorman,

According to the technical blurb I believe these glow plugs on the latest Skyactiv diesels are 'CERAMIC' units which heat up to 1600 degrees in 2 seconds along with' Piezo' multi hole injectors so allowing for the part opening of valves from start up using the hot air right from the start to heat up the catalyst quicker leading to reduction of Nox and particulates rather than going down the route of 'Ad Blu' to achieve the same action.

Personally I find if you have an engine which is an 'interference fit' unit where all moving parts are to very tight and close to almost touching tolerances that this latest introduced variable valve technology is close to turning the engine into a wreck in short order and these 3 cylinder start ups are a result of the valves being part open to achieve this coupled with the 1800 rpm to try and overcome an introduced problem by the technical engineers.

If it introduces 'piston slap' as a result then to me metal on metal means a short lived engine and as we all know Mazda have been past masters in the art of duff engines ( Rotary being a prime example ) pushing limits with unforeseen results merely to reduce pollution from it's latest engine offerings using high end technology with the dubious results you and I have witnessed first hand. The removal of a big end and crank journal cap would reveal if this uneven start procedure has had a telling effect on the most stressed parts of the engine subject to the highest compression and rotational forces which are reliant on high oil pressure in the shortest time

Lastly I would advise that although you have experience in diesels over many years if the engine is firing on 3 not 4 at start up then return it to the garage as it is under warranty, if you carry out any adjustments yourself and it goes pear shaped Mazda will contest that anything you have done has led to the engine problems and at £12,000 for a new engine even I have to grit my teeth and allow the garage to get to grips with this problem even though as you, I have a Motor Technicians experience behind me and it grips me up that in 2018 we have problematic engines which we are expected to just accept by Mazda as being 'normal' well in my book it is not especially when it costs £30,000 for it.

[Anchorman]

Don’t worry, I’ve got an “understanding “ with my dealer. Checking the resistance can be done without removing them.

It sounds like you’ve got your own ideas anyway.  Keep us informed.

[CX-Fiver]

Clarice, I have huge sympathy for the problem you're having and genuinely hope it's rectified soon.

However, I think you're a bit strong with "as we all know Mazda have been past masters in the art of duff engines ( Rotary being a prime example )" comment. If that's the case, why on earth did you buy a CX-5? I've had 3 Mazda's; a MX-5, Mazda6 (with the 2.2 diesel engine) and now a CX-5 (again, with the 2.2 diesel) and they've all been faultless.

[Anchorman]

Yes, I must admit, I found that comment a bit unnecessary. The current range of Skyactive engine are fantastic in my opinion especially now they’ve cured oil dilution.

I’m currently in the USA running a new rental with the 2.5 engine and it’s superb.  I’ll certainly have one next time if it makes it to our shores.

[Clarice]

As stated Mazda have in the past made a right pigs ear over rotaries, I was in the trade at the time and my comment stands. I too have had 5 Mazda's 3 MX-5's and a Mazda 3 coupe 2.2 diesel Skyactiv which have all performed faultlessly. Hence why we went for the new CX-5 with Diesel engine based on the 3 which went for 3 years with no problems and NEVER made the thrashing and crashing this one does
This CX-5 has not and paying top dollar for a vehicle with an engine that has a fault that the dealer can't find and Anchorman who has exactly the same problem to me means that the desire to utilise technology to overcome one problem has resulted in the rise of another, in this case 'Piston Slap' which if you heard the noise first hand YOU would feel the same way I do especially as the reticence of Mazda to accept there is a fault which I have captured on more than one occasion yet have not corrected it angers me no end.
I don't put into print that I cannot prove, if you look on other sites regarding Mazda Skyactiv diesels there are many out there less than happy with them, if I'd seen those sites beforehand I would have given the CX5 diesel a wide berth and gone for petrol instead except that Mazda don't currently make a petrol/automatic variant.

[Bert321]

Mazda don't currently make a petrol/automatic variant.

They don't sell them in the UK but the 2.5 petrol auto is available elsewhere.

[Clarice]

According to Tracey Lines who is at Mazda UK the latest 'Skyactiv X' 2 litre petrol is to be offered later this year in automatic form. I shall however not be one of the front runners to purchase said vehicle as i feel hard bitten by the problems experienced with the latest Skyactiv diesel offering in the CX-5 i currently own.

I would add that as a vehicle it is extremely hard to fault the CX-5 and thought I made that point clear early on in my narrative, it looks good from the outside, is very refined inside, handles very well for an SUV, gives good MPG for such a high vehicle and is very quiet compared to our previous Mazda3 Coupe.

My issue is solely with the engine which does on occasion start on 3 cylinders and a horrifying rattle which accompanies it, this does not happen on each cold start-up nor does it do so on any particular weather related day, it is sporadic as is the engine RPM which can vary from 800 to 1800 on any cold start-up which in this day and age should not occur with faults having been ironed out pre production if any are experienced by purchasing customers then they should be listened to and not merely sidelined with excuses that do not wash.

My comments are directed solely at Mazda as a Company for their failure to act expediently to rectify a problem with the one major unit that can make or break the vehicle and the owners enjoyment of same, not to individuals owners of Mazda's of whom I am one and have owned as stated a number of them over the course of several years which have given me no cause for concern performing faultlessly only seeing the Garage for the service intervals to be completed and nothing else.

Hope this clarifies my situation to those of you who have this vehicle and experience no problems with them in which I hope that you continue with trouble free motoring for many years.

[Clarice]

Mazda don't currently make a petrol/automatic variant.

They don't sell them in the UK but the 2.5 petrol auto is available elsewhere.

Three cold start-ups in a row on three separate days AND YES, it rattled each time although starting on 4 not 3 cylinders, latest being today so will persist with this until we receive the loan CX-5 from Mazda UK for cold start comparison. I will video capture each vehicle on cold start up every day. it's time consuming and an annoyance but if it proves a point I will persist.

[Clarice]

Today 15/06/18 we have been loaned a silver CX-5, by Mazda UK, to the same spec as Clarice for a two week evaluation.
Took both around the same course Silver one first followed by Clarice wife driving and me as passenger with following observations:-

Silver One

1 Engine runs quieter than Clarice
2. Under initial acceleration there is NO diesel rattle
3. Engine pick up and go is noticeably quicker and quieter
4. Kick down comes in easier with only engine RPM rising- No Lag or induction roar heard in Cabin
5. MPG noticeably better by 8 to 10 MPG

Clarice

1. Engine start up with slight rattle
2. Initial acceleration diesel rattle is easily heard in cabin
3. Engine power and pick up slower and noisier than Silver One
4. Kick Down comes in with lack of urgency and definate induction roar heard in Cabin
5. MPG down on Silver One by 8 to 10MPG.

This was conducted in exactly the same manner using exactly the same route in exactly the same weather conditions with both vehicles and already the difference in both of them is marked.

[twabrigs]

Very interesting comparison. Hopefully a Mazda engineer will do something similar and have the same conclusions.

[Anchorman]

Today 15/06/18 we have been loaned a silver CX-5, by Mazda UK, to the same spec as Clarice for a two week evaluation.
Took both around the same course Silver one first followed by Clarice wife driving and me as passenger with following observations:-

Silver One

1 Engine runs quieter than Clarice
2. Under initial acceleration there is NO diesel rattle
3. Engine pick up and go is noticeably quicker and quieter
4. Kick down comes in easier with only engine RPM rising- No Lag or induction roar heard in Cabin
5. MPG noticeably better by 8 to 10 MPG

Clarice

1. Engine start up with slight rattle
2. Initial acceleration diesel rattle is easily heard in cabin
3. Engine power and pick up slower and noisier than Silver One
4. Kick Down comes in with lack of urgency and definate induction roar heard in Cabin
5. MPG down on Silver One by 8 to 10MPG.

This was conducted in exactly the same manner using exactly the same route in exactly the same weather conditions with both vehicles and already the difference in both of them is marked.

This is subjective or you used some sort of instrumentation?

[Clarice]

Anchorman,
 
What better way of unearthing a problem than letting the main driver of the vehicle experience the same model for comparison on the same route in the same weather using the same methods at the same locations for each?
Something we do dispassionately given what I used to do and what my wife still does, we use common sense and listening along with feel for the individual vehicle when making a comparison and what was used years ago when i was in the Motor Trade to diagnose faults with vehicles

More can be unearthed by subjective findings in these matters than instrumentation which as you know has been used by the Garage to nil effect thus far.

Both my wife and I drive Clarice, she more than me which is why I let my wife drive and I acted as passenger on each occasion,  over blowing a problem can and will blow up in your face when it is in print ( Libel Laws do exist  even for these forums ) so anything I write will be correct.

We are not looking for anything other than this rattling cold start engine problem to be dealt with by Mazda and soonest, test drive of the Demonstrator has already proved to both of us that ours DOES Rattle on start-up AND is down on power/MPG compared to the demonstrator.

[Anchorman]

Fair enough. Keep us informed.